How does Israel Get way with this

06-05-2022 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022834#Comment_119022834

They already do. Most Arab nations have a Jewish and Christian population, often going back centuries. And I don't see Israel being held to standards that aren't applied to other Arab nations... except possibly for Palestine.

Palestine seems to be immune to any condemnation. 'Palestinians have done bad things, but...' Always the but is there, and the bad things are swept behind a curtain while the discussion returns to Israel being scummy. There's never really any balance to these discussions.

TBH I figured out a long time ago, that posters who love to talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict don't want peace. They want a side to represent, and fight for.

HerrKuehn · 06-05-2022 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022884#Comment_119022884

There are very few jews in muslim countries and given the hatred the muslims have for them, I can't imagine it is a very comfortable existence. There is conflict everywhere muslim majority countries come into contact with non muslim countries. We have a strange setup here where the left generally takes the side of islamic countries over western ones. Their culture is so illiberal and extreme right that it is difficult to understand the reasoning behind it.

I think a lot of it is that they are so against what they view as "western imperialism" that they will side with any other kind of imperialism against it. Clare Daly and Mick Wallace are a good example of this. They want sanctions against Israel (fair enough) but were very critical of sanctions against Russia as they hurt normal people (WTF?).

06-05-2022 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022941#Comment_119022941

I've spent time travelling in a variety of Islamic nations, and typically, they have laws protecting the existence of other religious faiths. Little different from here in many ways. The only difference is the expectation that those other religions keep their heads down, and not make waves. Then, there are other Islamic nations, such as Jordan, which are more relaxed towards other religions, and don't enforce the more traditional perspectives. It's not as clear-cut as people want to make out. There's a wide range of differences in how individual Islamic nations (and their populations) treat those of other religions.

Housefree · 06-05-2022 12:51pm

Ireland has a great Palestinian solidarity group:

https://www.ipsc.ie/

And

SADAKA Mission: ‘To promote and maximise support for changes in Ireland’s domestic and foreign policies which advance the achievement of self-determination and other fundamental rights of the Palestinian people.’

https://www.sadaka.ie

Housefree · 06-05-2022 12:52pm

Israel is an Apartheid state

Amnesty International:

'Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity'

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

Human Rights Watch 'Israel is an apartheid state'

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution

Israels Human Rights organization declared it Apartheid

'A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid'

https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid

Make sure you check out the boycott campaign:

https://bdsmovement.net/

Housefree · 06-05-2022 1:10pm

Israel funds a massive online troll army to defend it's Apartheid regime and justify it's human Rights abuses.

https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

https://youtu.be/iYzVOlcENZ4

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israels-troll-army-will-not-stop-palestinian-activism

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191020-the-war-on-truth-how-israels-social-media-trolls-conquered-facebook/amp/

https://youtu.be/1FUTNOvDYC0

HerrKuehn · 06-05-2022 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119023082#Comment_119023082

I have traveled in Islamic countries as well, including Jordan. Yes, I would say Jordan is more relaxed to other faiths, or at least to Christianity. It has also generally been relatively friendly towards Israel (it alerted Israel to the Arab plan for a surprise attack in 1973). There are certainly countries that take a more liberal view than others, but on the other hand you have very extreme countries like Saudi and Pakistan. The types of places where you can be killed for blasphemy. I view membership of a religion in the same way as a view membership of a political party. I think it is equivalent (and yes I am aware that religious people would prefer to have special status for "faith"). If someone told me they were a member of a political party where the penalty for leaving is death, what should I think?

06-05-2022 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119023402#Comment_119023402

If someone told me they were a member of a political party where the penalty for leaving is death, what should I think?

Does it matter? You're on the outside looking in... and you're being a wee bit selective in how you approach this. Have you ever considered sects such as Opus Dei, which are both religious and political, who are seriously scary in how they operate?

In terms of nuttiness, there's little real difference between Islam and Judaism or even Christianity (especially if considering the hardline organisations in the US), when you look at the more.. dedicated faiths or sects.

In any case we're moving far from the thread content.

06-05-2022 1:33pm

There used to be large Christian and Jewish minorities in muslim majority countries decades ago. Women in those countries were able to wear bikinis and live moderately western lifestyles. That's a fact.

However in the last few decades the Islamic extremists in these countries have turned the screw, making them more and more conservative and intolerant of 'infidels'. As a result, the Christians and Muslims have been all but pushed out of the region. But we are supposed to imagine that Palestine would not follow this trend. That it's special and would take care of its Jewish neighbours. Frankly, to be asked to believe that idea is the triumph of hope over experience.

HerrKuehn · 06-05-2022 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119023431#Comment_119023431

Oh, I agree about the other religions, especially opus dei and our beloved iona institute. The fact is a much more extreme version of Islam has become popular in recent decades. The Islamic State was popular with muslims all over the world. They were burning people alive and throwing homosexuals off buildings. These are the types of neighbours that Israel has. I am not surprised they have the siege mentality. I think they need to be able to protect themselves. Ideally the west bank would either become it's own state or merge with Jordan. The Gaza strip would probably be better off merging with Egypt as it is really not viable on its own and is not connected to the west bank.

Dyr · 06-05-2022 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022834#Comment_119022834

Because, like some mental Imperial Japanese soldier on a Pacific Island still holding out decades later, the hard left were told by Moscow that Palestine was their hot topic and they've kept banging away at it ever since.

Much like Kremlin Clare Daly and the rest with their script on NATO from the 60s

foxsake · 06-05-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022834#Comment_119022834

they do though. not sure where you decided they don't or care.

even in iran the jewsih community are treated well. probably cos they aren't zionists though

Weepsie · 06-05-2022 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022627#Comment_119022627

You cant keep simply overlooking the fact that people who had lived there for centuries where essentially displaced overnight whether they liked it or not because of some historical claim on a land based on religious beliefs and basically because it was easier than admitting everyone fucked up and didn't seem to want to welcome the rich and varied Jewish communities back to their countries anyway.

timmyntc · 06-05-2022 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119023510#Comment_119023510

lol, this is a new one - Russia are to blame for people being opposed to israels actions and land seizures in Palestine! 🤣🤣

What next - the British occupation of Ireland was really North korean propaganda? 🤣

Brucie Bonus · 06-05-2022 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021769#Comment_119021769

I have based it on the events. I want peace. I want Israel to exist. I want Israel to cease all aggression and stop stealing land.

I think your assumptions are your problem.

06-05-2022 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119023667#Comment_119023667

I didn't give assumptions. I gave my opinion. Still... my opinion is not mine or anyone's problem.. because it's just an opinion.

As I said previously, there is no balance in such views. You've hedged but the bias remains in your post. It's easily seen.

Leaving all this here. No point continuing because you'll very likely escalate to insults next. It's the way these discussions tend to go.

screamer · 06-05-2022 2:54pm

If you actually read back into the history of how territory in Israel was created, it’s not too unlike our own history. There may be wrong on all sides but Israel sure go for overkill literally and the force they employ cannot be justified. We can all point to atrocities in our past, it does not justify or support current day actions. Unfortunately that’s a total mess of a situation there, and I can see full scale war breaking out there too in the not too distant future.

Odhinn · 06-05-2022 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022294#Comment_119022294

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022088#Comment_119022088

You do realise that Israel has legallised torture, detains without trial, assasinates oponents abroad........?

Overheal · 06-05-2022 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022834#Comment_119022834

I'm not familiar with any Islamic country, particularly those aggressive toward Israel, that have a Protectorate relationship with the United States. It's this relationship which has often killed many an effort to sanction Israel for its own deeds. It's this arrangement that allows Apartheid to go unabated.

Danzy · 06-05-2022 3:07pm

Ultimately Israel knows that the right of return, an Muslim Arab majority ends with their extermination.

That is part of the unsolvable nature of it. 2 people with different cultures/faith/identities in one land.

Even outside of identity and religion, related as they are. Israel is very tolerant of LGBT community, of women etc. In Palestine honour killing is permitted, women are less than a dog.

It's like 1960s San Francisco sharing a neighborhood with an estate that makes Franco's Spain seem friendly, relaxed and open.

It's a tough situation but they are not going to Go along with their own extermination.

HerrKuehn · 06-05-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119024086#Comment_119024086

They bet on the wrong horse. The more belligerent neighbours were soviet aligned but it didn't work out too well in the end. In 1973 you had soviet pilots flying "Syrian" planes in the war against Israel.

monseiur · 06-05-2022 3:27pm

We're in the 21st century, the 'West' give the impression that it's enlightened, educated, tolerant, compassionate, democratic etc. etc. Israel strive to be be part of this culture (think simple things like soccer, Eurovision Song Contest etc.) yet they are holding 1.8 million Palastinians as prisoners in Gaza Strip for decades, Gaza Strip is basically an open air prison. They control it's air space, maratime space, water supply, economy, movement of people, goods, services etc. Palastines live in dire poverty without hope or future as their masters live in opulance.

Just as the downtrodden minority in Northern Ireland rebelled and fought for thier rights from the late 1960's onward - the Palastines in Gaza rise up occasionally seeking equal rights as the true citizens of Palestine hoping the world will her their cry for help, just to be bombed into the dark ages again and again with thousands killed including many children. The sooner the US ''forces'' Israel to give the Palestinines their own independent homeland the better for all concerned. Imagine the justifiable outcry if the Russians were holding 2 million Ukrainians as prisoners in this manner, the Yanks, NATO etc. would be falling over themselves to help free them, crying war crimes etc. Without justice, rights & freedom there will be no peace.

HerrKuehn · 06-05-2022 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119024194#Comment_119024194

What do you suggest they do with Gaza? It is so small it isn't really viable on its own and it isn't connected to the west bank. I get what you are saying about western countries and Ukraine, but you will find that muslims are only focused on what is happening to other muslims. They couldn't give a flying feck about what is happening in Ukraine. I would say that there is a greater concern for what is going on in palestine in europe than there is concern for ukraine from the middle eastern countries.

monseiur · 06-05-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022688#Comment_119022688

Basically the point I was trying to put across - in the US (the so called land of the brave, home of the free) it's OK to lampoon, satirise, ridicule, mock Christians, Hindus, Muslims and many others but NOT Jews. They are the ''special people'' and are protected by all kinds of legislation. Try organising, say, a cartoon contest in the US, Europe or elsewhere with the aim of mocking the holocust... good luck with that!

HerrKuehn · 06-05-2022 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119024363#Comment_119024363

I would expect you could do the same with jews in the US. I would also expect that if you did so, a gunman would not turn up planning to kill the crowd. Making fun of Islam carries a very real risk of death, even in European countries. Charlie Hebdo?

timmyntc · 06-05-2022 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119024311#Comment_119024311

What do you suggest they do with Gaza? It is so small it isn't really viable on its own and it isn't connected to the west bank.

And whose fault is that?

Odhinn · 06-05-2022 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021167#Comment_119021167

There is indeed an "innocent" side. The fact is that the Israeli state is colonising land outside its legally recognised borders, thus rendering it the aggressor.