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How does Israel Get way with this

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,721 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    They want a 1.1 solution, nearly all the West Bank without its Arab population which will then be penned into powerless bantustans forever. The scariest possibility for them is that the Palestinians might turn reasonable in a few decades time, and the best antidote to that is to seize the land soon. The process is well underway already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    The 'light of democracy' allright.

    "Palestinian children in the Israel military detention system face physical and emotional abuse, with four out of five (86%) of them being beaten, and 69% strip-searched, according to new research by Save the Children. Nearly half (42%) are injured at the point of arrest, including gunshot wounds and broken bones. Some report violence of a sexual nature and some are transferred to court or between detention centres in small cages, the child rights organisation said. 

    The new research comes as the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967 presents evidence today to the Human Rights Council on Palestinian children in detention. It is estimated that there are between 500 and 1000 children held in Israeli military detention each year."

    https://www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Noe Aggressive Axe


    US Congress passes "Israel is not Racist" resolution with a vote of 412-9.


    The House on Tuesday overwhelmingly passed a resolution pledging unfailing support for Israel, condemning antisemitism and declaring that the country is neither racist nor an apartheid state, in an implicit rebuke of Democrats who have criticized the nation ahead of an address by its president to a joint session of Congress.

    Beyond bizarre.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Bear in mind that the US has supported numerous latin american dictators, apartheid south africa and (as it was then) rhodesia and protected them in much the same way as it does Israel. It's the point of BDS to make the public aware exactly what it is that their representatives are supporting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭francois


    Knesset just passed the contraversial judicial reform bill. Opposition walked out. Huge protests and general strike now a possibility.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    What is the solution?



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    The Palestinians need to get their house in order. Then a new Government in Israel. How likely is either option?

    Given the way the United States enslaved and then treated African Americans we can't always expect a democracy to behave itself.

    Of course let's face facts if the Palestinians had got statehood in 1948 or earlier the place would be a shithole like most of the middle east



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    maybe to the conflict?

    Just take them off planet to a mind expanding alien hookah bar




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,223 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,616 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes, just look what has happened in the West Bank. The Israeli right really have no interest in a two state solution.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Are they total victims? In 1948 there was a two state solution. The Arabs attacked the Jews. They promised to slaughter the Jews in Palestine in 1948.

    Thankfully they lost. The Jews did not slaughter the Palestinians who did not flee. They gave them citizenship.

    The Arab states around them had told the Arab Palestinians to leave.

    After being defeated the Arab states - lovely people these Arabs - really great record od human rights - they expelled their Jews.

    Some victims



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Are Israel total victims?

    And round and round and round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,223 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The Israelis are still murdering the Arabs and taking their land. All at once or bit by bit its all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭tinytobe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Its not the Palestinians building colonies in Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I simply don't like Hamas and Fatah both Palestine, Israel doesn't have that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,223 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    If they're caught then they are brought to justice. The IDF get away with murder all the time. Theirs is legalised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Israel "doesn't have that" because it has the IDF. If you want to go back before the IDF, "Israel" had the Irgun and Haganah.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Let's get real here. Israel exists. It was a terrible idea but caught on. So I will provide a few principles for a solution based on Realism

    1)all Israeli settlements out of the west bank

    2) free elections in the west bank and Gaza. A united Palestinian front

    3) Israel create a federalist state with Gaza and west bank as provinces. These provinces have restrictions. But it is one federal state

    4) under this federal state the president and key ministers are Jews. Movement between provinces are restricted.


    4



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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Part of the intractable part of Israel is that it's values are not common in the middle east.

    Thus neither the west bank or Gaza operates democratically.

    You can blame the Jews on this and you might have a point but it would provide moral legitimacy if gaza and the west bank had legitimate government.

    Failing that it might be better if both were subsumed into other nations such as Jordan or Jordan

    But if I was a Palestinian I'd prefer to be in Israel. That says it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Outside the withdrawal out of the west bank, thats possibly one of the worst notions I've read in a long time. The idea that "under this federal state the president and key ministers are Jews" enshrines sectarianism into law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,223 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    'But if I was a Palestinian I'd prefer to be in Israel. That says it all'


    No that says what someone in Ireland feels without having the living experience of being under Israeli brutality and wishing to have their own jurisdiction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    There is a lot to unpack here. The inherent acceptance that there was a two state solution in 1948 which was undermined by Arab violence...okay, but how did the second state (i.e. Israel) that didn't exist prior to 1948 arise again? Peaceful demonstrations? Please.

    There was total terrorism by Zionists prior to 1948. Research the Irgun group and the Stern gang which was so violent in its goals that it continued attacks on the British during WW2, sought alliances with Germany and Italy and carried out massacres of Arab villagers, including execution of prisoners, mutilation and rape. Anything was justified to continue their goal of conquest of Palestine. Even post WW2, Zionist terrorists continued to murder British soldiers and boobytrap their bodies to inflict as much damage as possible. There was no awareness of, empathy for or allowance made by these founding fathers of Israel for the British soldiers they targeted defeating the Germans or liberating Jews in Europe. Just total cruelty and brutality against the British until they withdrew in defeat, drew some lines on a map and gave the Zionists a free hand from 1948 against the Arab civilians.

    Membership and indeed leadership of these terrorist groups was no disqualifier from serving in senior roles of the Israeli state that succeeded them. The violence was always initiated by the Zionists who founded Israel. The Arabs were always defending themselves from Zionists - though unsuccessfully. If Israel continues to experience violence it is because their state has been born from violence.

    As for Israeli values - the core Israeli value is that it is a jewish supremacist state. Clearly that is not going to be a shared value with its neighbours. And Israel is entirely willing to subvert democratic principles to preserve its core purpose as a jewish supremacist state. Israel with an Arab majority defeats itself.

    As for your theoretical question about where a Palestinian might choose to live let me ask you one. Do you think there is a Zionist out there arguing for your interests on Israeli forums in the same way you're arguing for Zionist interests on an Irish forums? That says it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Ethnic cleansing over a 40 year period -

    "In 1981, Israel declared 12 villages in Masafer Yatta, including the village of Khirbet Tuba as Firing Zone 918-An area spanning 3, 000 hectares of the Masafer Yatta size. In 1999, Israeli military forces invaded Khirbet Tuba and other villages in the firing zone and expelled the residents by force by loading them onto trucks. The residents could return back to their homes thanks to their resistance and campaigning.

     On May 4, 2022, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in favor of ethnically cleansing eight of these villages. Khirbet Tuba is among of the villages included in the court decision.

    The court ruling to force Palestinians from their land in these villages is currently being enforced by Israeli settlers. The most openly fascist and racist current Israeli government has given settlers the green light to invade Palestinian villages in broad daytime. The job of the Israeli army has become to stand behind the settlers, back them and prevent Palestinians from defending themselves while settlers harass and terrorize them."

    https://www.stopthewall.org/2023/08/04/palestinians-in-khirbet-tuba-face-increased-settler-attacks/?fbclid=IwAR16erkLAXRcyD84qM2xb_rxmtuERKGU4TNuXmrVJjvVLPQPOp88zu95bbU



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