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New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Some of Bills comments last night after the draft.

    Asked if Cole was in consideration if they'd picked at 21.

    'Yeah, well, if we had stayed at 21, then we would have obviously picked somebody. Probably a good chance it would have been him(Cole). I don't know, there were several teams that we talked to prior to when we made the trade. There were some other conversations going on there, but ultimately that's the one we chose.

    Glad Cole was there when we picked, and as I said, feel like we made the best decision that we could at 21.'

    Asked if he thought he would have been there for our next pick.

    'Yeah, he wouldn't have lasted much longer.'

    It was mentioned about the comparison with Logan Mankins but he wouldn't go there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Speckydodge


    He looks like a good player but whether he is or isn't doesn't stop it from being completely baffling.

    1. Guard was a need this of-season ok, but it's a need they created themselves for no apparent reason.
    2. It's not a premium position where contract control is important with the 5th year option.
    3. You have to look at who they've passed up to make this move.
    4. It in no way helps the problems they have in the division of stopping the crazy fast offences.

    There's no way to spin it to make this look like a good pick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye



    Mel Kiper said Mankins was a reach in the first round in 2005. That was the general consensus among the media 'draft experts'. Mankins went on to be a six time all Pro and seven time pro-bowler.

    I didn't like the pick but we have a good history taking offensive linemen in the first round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    ee, you're taking the one time a longshot working out and hoping it happens again. Bit like picking the same lottery numbers that came up last week and hoping for the same result. Might work, but lightening doesn't strike twice



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm not though, fact is we have a great record drafting offensive linemen. The higher we draft them the better they turn out. The exception being the injury prone Isaiah Wynn. Matt Light and Sebastian Vollmer were second rounders, Joe Thuney and Nick Kaczur were third rounders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Lets hope it works out and Bill has found a diamond that other teams/anaylsts don't see



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    I don't hate the pick of Strange, he plugs a position of need and I think he'll turn into a "safe" pick.

    Was he the best potential player available, no...

    I was really hoping we'd pick up Quay Walker or Devin Llyod at 21 to help our aging LB corps, I'm wondering now if he traded down hoping Llyod would still be available and didn't expect the Jags to step in and take him at 27.

    In the end though, I prefer picking Strange vs taking a reach on a player at another position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Speckydodge


    I'm hoping they are aggressive tonight and move up for Gordon or Booth , possibly a wide out like Watson or Sky Moore too. Should be able to get a decent LB in round 3 still some talent out there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    We've nine picks left according to Sky, which is 2nd most of all teams. Three picks tonight, and plenty of ammo to move up.

    I don't mind picking a Guard at 29, but it's just annoying that it's viewed by most experts as poor value and a pick that could have waited.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    My issue with this more than anything else is that while it’s a pick that will improve the unit, it’s not a pick that will improve the team e.g. pass or run blocking better won’t put another win in the column



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    What on earth are you talking about? You don't think better blocking improves a team's chances of winning? Do you watch much football?



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    Apologies if I made my point too simply. Our OL is not in such a state, or likely to be improved so much by the acquisition of Strange, that the pass and run blocking improve to the point of making a difference versus getting a 3-down impact linebacker, shutdown corner or stud receiver, all of which are more likely to add another number or two to the win column. Indeed, we could probably pick up someone on the vet minimum, plug them in, get a slightly worse level of performance and still broadly get the same results. We won’t be picking up any impact 3 down backers, corners or wide receivers in free agency at the level we could get in the draft.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Tyquan Thornton taken with pick 50. I seen him play, he has blazing speed and he's pretty tall. I'm not sure how he'll do but he'll definitely contribute on ST's from day one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    Bit of a perplexing draft by the Patriots really. Seems mad drafting 2 RB's with Harris, Stevenson and White already there and seemingly more immediate priorities elsewhere.

    There does seem to have been a big focus on speed with most of the picks, and let's hope a few of them pan out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    We normally have five running backs so they'll be going up against Taylor and Ozigbo and the udfa's for roster spots.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    I'd say White and Harris are gone after this year so probably an eye on that with those RB picks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Pierre Strong could be anything. He had 1686 rushing yards in 2021 at South Dakota State.

    Bailey Zappe likewise could be anything. 5967 passing yards with a 69% completion rate in his only season at Western Kentucky. I was very surprised to see us grab a QB in the fourth round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    Jarrett Stidham being traded to the Raiders. As you might expect we are not getting a whole pile in return - we give up a 7th rounder and get a 6th rounder back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,518 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Schedule released last night.

    2022 New England Patriots season - Wikipedia

    Not much to be said really as these things are always a mixture of good and bad against an already known set of opponents.

    But some notables - bye week in 10 which is probably optimal - @ Arizona and @ Las Vegas are both within 6 days of each other in December which is potentially great for reducing travelling and giving the team a week of decent weather - Thanksgiving Thursday Game in Minnesota, first TG game since the butt fumble I think - Finish in Buffalo Week 18.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'd be hoping for 12 wins out if that schedule, any less would be disappointing, a few more would be great.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Interesting that both Buffalo games are later in the season, with 4 of the 6 divisional games after the bye.

    Shape of the division could be changed quite quickly in those last few weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I purposely waited until now to watch Man in the Arena. Two episodes in and I'm loving it because it's all about the Patriots and I'm getting to see great plays and interviews with Patriots legends.

    I'm also realising how lucky we are to have had such a great coach and quarterback for so long and all the other great players we had. I could name elite players for quite a while and great players all day.

    Examples would be McGinest, Tippett, Slade, Johnson, Milloy, Law, Vrabel, Seymour, Wilfork, Light, Bruschi, Samuel, Harrison, McCourty, Gilmore, Butler, Hightower, Dillon, Faulk, White, Brown, Moss, Welker, Edelman, Gronk and let's not forget probably the greatest ST'er of all time Slater.

    The above is just elite players in my opinion. The great ones is at least three times as long as that list.

    Obviously I left Brady out as he is the Man in the Arena.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Speckydodge


    Yeah I really enjoyed , I'm a sucker for sports docs though 😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭ssshhh123


    Anywhere to watch man in the arena.. no access to disney



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Speckydodge


    If you have an android phone there's loads of apps to watch series and movies then cast them to your telly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,246 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    Harry finally off the books. The Bears have kindly given us a 2024 7th round pick for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,596 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Quite the robbery by us



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    Probably worth noting that Jason McCourty (twin of long-time servant Devin) retired this week. He played a big part in the 2018 season where we went on to win our 6th Superbowl. He also made perhaps the biggest play of that Superbowl where he broke up the long (under-thrown) pass down the middle for what would almost definitely have been a Brandin Cooks TD and a huge momentum builder for the Rams.

    (Long video but the play is showed in first 10 secs)




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Lots of good stuff about Afernee Jennings and Devin Asiasi, two guys who've had troubled spells since being drafted.

    It'd be great to see make big leaps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,246 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    See James White has called it a day due to injuries. Fabulous player who played a huge part in 3 Superbowl wins



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    A great one and always kept to himself. Nothing but the highest respect from me for James White.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Watched the game last night.

    Zappe looked decent, Kristian Wilkerson looked very good. Nixon and Humphrey also looked good. Reserve OL had some good performances but I didn't get the names.

    On the defensive side Uche didn't play much but got a sack. Cameron McGrone stood out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Offensive line is awful, needs to be fixed quickly or we'll have an awful season. D not doing great either but they've spent a lot of time on the field.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭Christy42


    No turnovers but they very much kept Miami's speed pretty quiet. The 2 4th downs (the TD and another was never snapped due to a defensive lineman jumping offside) was obviously an issue but they kept the Miami offense to 13 points out of 7 drives or so (ignoring the one that the Dolphins just wanted to kill time and didn't want to score). I think any team would take that as a good result from their defense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    While they didn't score that much they had a few long drives.

    I'm not blaming the D for that, I'm blaming our porous OL who couldn't stay on the field for any length in the first half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mo

    Post edited by eagle eye on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mo



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    Hard to know if there's things to build on from last week. First drive either half, the offence looked competent and executed well (leaving aside the interception and dodgy PI miss). At other times, they looked flat. Didn't see coaches cam but I don't get the sense that receivers are getting open. Sitting Bourne for most of the game didn't help either, although can't figure out if that's a function of us spending so much time in our 12 package. Think the biggest problem, aside from OL which you'd like to think we will fix, is that we can't seem to throw anything beyond either short 5-7 yard routes or deep shots. We don't really seem to have much if any intermediate passing, which makes us easy to defend. I thought playcalling was OK aside from some really odd calls (Humphrey run on 3-and-3). D was OK aside from the horrid line Dugger took for the Waddle touchdown, which is a pity as up til then he was making the kind of plays which should put him in the discussion for the Pro Bowl.

    Interestingly, Marcus Cannon signed to practice squad yesterday. Not sure if he's any gas left, but if he does, be interesting to see how/if he slots in. Might not be good news for Trent Brown, as I suspect they might swap Wynn back to the left and plug Cannon in right. Alternatively, maybe it's just to up the pressure on Brown to perform.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Some good analysis here, good critique of some of Mac's poor decisions and mistakes by the OL.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    More bad decisions from Mac today.

    This Patricia experiment has to stop. It's only been 8 quarters and has been an absolute disaster so far. Watching our offence is such a chore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mac was better this week but taking chances like throwing a ball into double coverage has to stop.

    You gotta dink and dunk a good bit to get proper downfield opportunities.

    He had Meyers, Henry and Smith open a lot on shorter routes. He needs to be getting the ball to them a lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Do we have the weaest group of recievers in the league at this stage? Can't think of any worse than the Pats WR/TE's



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    I think we've a solid group but we're missing a real top level receiver who would elevate the whole group.

    That said, there's surely more to come from this bunch. Bourne is in the dog house atm but was very good down the stretch last year, Parker can surely only improve, and Thornton looked good in pre-season before getting injured.

    TE is a worry though. Given the money we've invested at the position, the output is abysmal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    I do struggle to understand why BB has consistently neglected the receiving corps over the past few years.. It's a passing league and there's countless examples of QBs going from looking average to looking great with a good receiver or two. It's frustrating as a fan and I can only imagine how Mac feels about it. Brady, Edelman and Gronk were papering over cracks for years...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't think theres anything wrong with our tight ends. They are getting open but Mac is looking downfield instead of having shorter routes high up his progression list.

    I put up a good critique on Mac's performance in week 1 and you'll see that both Hunter and Jonno were open but not even looked at by Mac.

    I think Meyers is a great receiver and Agholor has improved a great deal since coming to New England. If Parker can stay healthy he'll be a big weapon. I liked Bourne a lot last year.

    Hopefully Thornton works out next year.

    We are not near the bottom as regards our receiving weapons. Let's be honest, it's not the receivers it's the QB. Look at the Chiefs receivers, nothing great outside of Kelce but Mahomes makes them look great, no superstar on the Packers but Rodgers has them looking good.

    Look at who Brady won Superbowls with, Edelman, Hogan and Gronk and nobody else, two years before that it was Edelman, Amendola, Mitchell, Hogan and Martellus Bennett. Go back to our first one, Troy Brown, Patten, Wiggins, Redmond and Edwards.

    If Mac sorts himself out and becomes less aggressive and more patient you'll see that we are fine as regards receivers. Brady would have a field day with our current group.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    I like your optimism but they're miles off playoff level recievers.

    "Meyers is a great receiver" - 2 TD's in 50 career games.

    Parker turns 30 this season.

    Aghalor is a WR3 standard.

    Hopefully Thornton works out but there were a lot of LOL's around the league when he was drafted.

    When you see how recent first round rookies are faring, JJ, Chase, Waddle, London, Wilson, Dotson, it's an arms race these days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Wes Welker had one TD in his first 55 games. He also played in the slot. Meyers is a great one, he's on the Welker path, he is intelligent, runs excellent routes and has great hands.

    Parker isn't a running back, he's got a few years left in him.

    Agholor is off to a nice start this season, if he keeps up what he's done in the first two games he'll have 1200 yards this season, I'm not saying that will happen but he could be back up near 1000. Will you call him WR1 if he does that? His only season with the Raiders he had just short of 900 yards and eight TDs. That was his best season. Then he comes to New England and has just short of 500 yards on shorter routes with a lot less targets playing with a game manager rookie QB. You underestimate him in my opinion.

    Who exactly was laughing when Thornton was selected in the second round? If you are talking about these 'draft experts' then I'm laughing at you for following their opinion.

    I don't often put up my thoughts on draft picks nowadays but I used to do it. I remember saying Derek Carr was the best QB in his class when they were all raving about Blake Bottles, Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel.

    I remember saying Luke Kuechly was the best player in 2012 draft, he was picked at nine and won defensive rookie of the year and then defensive player of the year the next season.

    I could give plenty more examples and I could give plenty of examples where I got it wrong and badly wrong as well but I'd consider myself as good if not better than Todd McShay and many other draftniks.

    I seen lots of Thornton last year and the two seasons before that. Baylor only played five games in 2020 and it was hard for anybody to look good as training was interrupted regularly by covid outbreaks. Tyquan broke out last season and looked like one of the best receivers in football. If he'd got a full season in 2020 at anywhere near the level he was at last year he'd have been a first round pick.

    Anyway back to our receivers, no receiver is going to have a great, or even good, season without a good QB. Mac still has to prove himself. I love the guy and want him to be a franchise QB but he needs to stop doing stupid things like throwing a ball up the middle into double coverage.

    He needs to improve his check down progression. It's okay to look long for no.1 but if he's not available you have to look short for 2 and 3. Unless you have a great OL you aren't getting the time to look long twice and then wait a second and wind up for the long throw.

    Both our tight ends are getting open a lot but he's not even looking at them. He did look at Henry in the last game but threw a poor ball to him. He threw three times at Jonnu but he was covered on two of them and threw a bad ball on the other one.

    Late in the first game he started to target them and they averaged around 10 yards per reception.

    Make no mistake about it, the problem right now is not our receivers and tight ends, it's our offensive line and quarterback.

    And I'm sitting here wearing my no.10 shirt right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Jamie Collins back again, the fourth time he's joined us. We've got great work from him, hopefully that continues. Hard to believe he's still only 32.

    It's amazing how quiet it's become when things are not going so well, seems like we had a lot of fairweather fans during the big years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    I’d say a lot of people are like me, which is they really aren’t sure what we have this year. However, at this stage, I think it’s safe to say:

    a) if everyone is healthy and we play for 60 minutes, we will give everyone a game. I’m not so confident we’ll win them, but we’ll definitely be in them.

    b) I think the secondary and pass rush looks good, but not 100% sold on pass coverage at the second level, which is probably why Collins is back.

    c) run game and blocking has definitely picked up, and that will definitely be a strength this year.

    d) I thought it was brown under threat from cannon, but at the rate wynn is picking up penalties, he might be under more threat. It’s a bit strange he’s not more dialled in as this is his contract year, correct?

    e) the pass game will go as the qb goes, whoever that is. Mac has been really hot and cold, some phenomenal high difficulty throws with boneheaded rookie-type throws. I’m not sure if he feels pressure to do more, but hopefully a few weeks off allow him get it together.

    f) hard to say on offensive playcalling, again like mac there’s been some really nice series and then some poor calls you’d love to have back. I definitely think we need to find a way to get bourne on the field more (irrespective of his run blocking), out of the intermediate/deep threat type receivers I think he’s the most consistent.

    looking at the schedule, we could run the table to the bye if we have rookie season mac. Without him, hard to know but only thing I have absolute confidence in is that the defence will give us a chance to win in every game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,014 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Good post Corey, agree with almost everything you say there but I like the setup on offense and I'm surprised I'm saying that with our joint co-ordinators who I didn't have any confidence in.

    Mac has missed lots of chances to complete on shorter routes. Our two TE's are running excellent routes underneath and Mac rarely looks at them, he's looking to go deeper almost all the time and he has to stop doing that. You gotta complete shorter routes to open it up deep.

    I've never been a fan of Wynn, sooner we replace him the better.



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