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30 year old arts graduate struggling to get by

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,941 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I'm only saying programming as that's my experience.

    Once upon a time I'd programme for free. Getting someone to pay me for it was unreal.

    Now, as I'm much older, and have family and life to deal with, the whole career aspect of it has become a REAL slog.

    But I still love getting the chance to do some uninterrupted programming. It's magical.

    You need to discover this yourself and not have some, possibly crap tutor/teacher turn you off for life.

    I don't think there are normal office jobs anymore that pay well, they are all being automated. Maybe management or ...

    I only suggested learn to code to see if you like it. If you do, then it's a great career option.

    Now, the way things are going in Dublin, it'll still be hard to buy anyway, especially if you are single.

    Or maybe there will be a crash ..

    But with a programming job, you can work anywhere in Ireland or abroad.

    It's definitely getting more competitive, but everything is getting automated and there is endless work to be done.

    Some of it is absolute garbage, but if can still pay very well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    Its not about money. Like I can afford a holiday every year and going for drinks etc. Its all about property. Irish people view renters as lower class and dont regard you as equal without home ownership. So its about needing to buy a home in Dublin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Civil service. Handy jobs. Secure. Great pension. And good support for training if you want to train up into something useful



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    A civil service wage wont buy a home in Dublin unless you have 20 years experience to get to 60k plus. And by then Id be too old for a mortgage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You already said you went to UCD. And to do Arts no less.

    Why the sudden concern now for people looking down on you as lower class? Where was that concern when you were filling out your CAO? What has changed in the meantime?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    Going to UCD to do Arts is as middle class as it comes. Most people in my course went to Blackrock College. I never expected to be unable to buy a home on it. I knew I wouldnt be rich but I thought anyone in work could buy a house in areas like Crumlin or Tallaght, because when I was growing up that was true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I'd imagine you wouldn't have to stay on the same ladder the whole time



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's weird though OP, the STEM subjects are present and well-known in TCD and UCD so it's a bit weird that you thought you had to do arts. Around that time (started then myself) the STEM courses did go up a bit but they were still lower than the Arts subjects.

    Nothing wrong with an Arts degree but the point isn't to train you in a particular field. Plenty of IT grads (and the people hiring them) will tell you how much learning is done on the job. Trouble is for Arts that isn't really the case. Some people may be able to negotiate a pay bump for a qualification but with an Arts degree you pretty much have to build from scratch. With IT at least there's a technical base and things tend to build logically and a clear path is there.



  • Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well what are the rest of your peers doing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    I didnt even do a science subject in my leaving cert. The idea of jobs in STEM never came up in school etc. I did arts because I liked writing and had an interest in politics.



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  • Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If your whole existence is based on you buying a house, it seems pretty sad.

    Do whatever you enjoy doing.I don't understand why you care about having a mortgage so much? Just because the job started at 26k, there can be a lot of opportunities you find once you start working somewhere.

    Nothing wrong with a first job paying 26K.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There were very few of them at the end of the day. And they required little skill compared to now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    Living at home or in house shares and working in admin jobs. Or in some cases the richer ones are living in houses their folks used to rent out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    My siblings who are 10 and 15 years older then me sat me down in 2017 and told me I HAD to buy a starter home soon. They told me renting is a choice.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well quit blaming school when you had no interest in those subjects.

    For 90%+ of people trying to be normal you need to be able to show progression. I did a degree, did a diploma, worked at a company for 3 years, got some certs, new company for 18 months, I have a "career". If you don't start specific (kind of the point of arts degrees) then you need to get specific to show a track record.



  • Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm Irish and I don't view renters as lower class. I think this is about your attitude. Get over it. I know plenty of Judges in Dublin whose kids are living in ex council houses in crumlin and cabra.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Given you are an ex-UCD self-professed member of the "middle class" whose greatest ambition and aspiration in life is to live in Crumlin or Tallaght, and further given you have studied politics, do you think you might be able to convince the plebs that you are a working class hero and that they should vote you into a cushy number? Join one of the Judean People's front groups in your locality and then once you have your feet under the table, become a splitter and set up your own rival group. Just shout noisily about anything and everything the plebs might swallow.

    Worked for your man Paul Murphy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Again, as others have said, this attitude must change. This "us and them" mentality is actually some of your problem. One doesn't "settle" for a tech job simply to make money. They will get only so far if they think the job/qualification is beneath them.

    I for one DID grow up in a council estate (Not owner-occupied). I didn't go to university. Didn't have the option. I did lose my job and go onto solial welfare while I went back to college. I wouldn't consider this a "step back"

    There has always been the attitude that going to university rather than a technical college (Or no college at all) should guarantee one higher wages but the fact of the matter is, money goes where the demand is. 20 years ago it was semi-skilled manufacturing. Intel are about to start another round of hiring. Currently it's networking/security (Especially after the HSE breach). 20 years from now, it could be online media relations, who knows.

    The problem with Arts and similar qualifications is that they are so nebulous that they have little "Real World" application and simply form the basis for further, more focused education. By that time, many are already 2-3 years in their job. I could never work out why, given the option, someone would go for a course such as arts as opposed to a technical college, more-focused course. That's what my "Career Guidance" teacher told us too: "Go to university. Do ANYTHING in Uni. Leave the other jobs for the rest" (Unfathomable really). Thankfully he and his kind are LONG gone :).


    You could look into business and try to start your own media company.



  • Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So? Are you your siblings? Forge your own path FFS.

    Just enjoy it. For God sake you will be old long enough!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Feisar


    No but the current housing shortage has us where we are. I believe there will be a reset of some form but it's at least twenty years away.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,507 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Opinions on that subject vary wildly. Some people are given houses for free because they can't/won't afford to rent at market rate, or get a mortgage. Others work themselves to the bone to put a roof over their heads. And then there's you OP...the single person not earning enough to live in the city and have your own space. I empathise with you, but you do have options.

    You can leave Dublin, or Ireland completely and start afresh elsewhere. You would need to pick somewhere your education and experience would be advantageous to you. The next option you should consider is to retrain. Similar to another poster on here, I went to college as a mature student at 34, starting off doing a year to get to level 5 and then onto an IT for 3 more years to get my Level 7. I could have skipped the first year though, but I left school after my Jnr cert and my math skills were very basic. I chose Engineering for the challenge and because I reckoned there would always be a need for them.

    You say your annual pay is 30k. I walked into a job earning more than that right after graduating and moved to another role where I have nearly doubled that income. It's about choosing what's right for you and unfortunately, an arts degree is generally not worth much unless you go into teaching, or you get lucky. If you can't earn what you need to at least have your own place (rented or mortgaged) then you need to change path, be it county, country or education. Don't feel like you've failed. Still a lot of time left in the game for you. Best of luck with your future.

    Stay Free



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Couldn't really blame them for that advice though, for most people it's decent advice. A 3 year degree starting at 17/18 is a good idea. Now though with TY becoming mandatory and all 4-year degrees, if someone is remotely handy they're mad to not start working at 16 and get their own van for when they're 17.

    I have to say though, sometimes I think I went to the best publicly-funded school in the entire world when I hear how other schools are run. Then I think back to when I was in school and remember just how many times lads claimed they had no idea about stuff that was spoken about loads. Mentioned physics in 3rd year and some lads were like "Wha's tha?", despite the fact we'd just had a class used by the Biology, Chemistry and Physics teachers pitching them to us. Same when new subjects were introduced, I was led to believe that the people it affected weren't informed at all even though I'd heard about it in classes for a year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    One idea I have is getting my drivers license, then getting a HGV licence. Those drivers are making 45k+ straight away. And I was thinking of getting warehouse general work in the meantime for experience in the industry.

    Considering in school they pretty much told us manual work was for people unable to go to college it seems like a backwards step, but as I have no interest in IT maybe the best option to get a property.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    I think part of your issue is worrying too much about what other people think. Who are these people that look down on renters? I’ve never encountered them - not in this day and age where it’s well documented how difficult it is. I’m 37 and have friends still renting including myself, you’re only 30 - people wouldn’t expect you to have a house already - I don’t get the pressure and ignore your siblings.

    When I was your age I was earning 30k too, I now earn 70. Not enough for me to buy a house alone but hopefully I can keep growing that.

    I also did an arts degree because I loved literature etc but it doesn’t pay the bills so I ended up going down a marketing /project management sort of route. It doesn’t have to be tech if you’ve no interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    Its mainly the media. You don't see renters on prime time. Its always geared around the need to buy.



  • Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The push in Ireland over The last 20/30 years has been to make the population believe that university was the only way.

    terrible advise. Skills and trades will never disappear, those are some of the richest people in the country. I know plenty of people that left school even before the inter cert, most just after (I'm that old!) that went on to own their own businesses.

    It's about you OP, never mind school or third level, it's real life now. Go see the world, do plenty of different things, enjoy it while you do it, and find what you love.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    That's the second or third time you have alluded to manual work/non-university type work about being somehow beneath you. I take back what I said about you being too hard on yourself. It seems you think you are better than these jobs because you did arts. You say not everyone can work in IT. Well, technical and manual jobs can pay well because many DO think it is somehow "beneath" them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    They don't have to be mutually exclusive. There is nothing stopping someone from coming out of university at 21 or 22 and then starting a trade. People will come out at that age and do Accounting or Solicitor apprenticeships so why not carpenter? There is a value in the university experience too so I wouldn't rule it out purely on a financial basis.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you run out to buy tampons when they're advertised?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,941 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Plumber is a great well paid job and their is huge demand. And it won't be automated soon until we have some kind of uniform plumbing in houses.



This discussion has been closed.
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