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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Probably some form of a ban on gas and oil, but not for a good bit but they should come with SWIFT bans on the final two big Russian banks as well. Ratcheting up sanctions was thought up by rational minds for an irrational adversary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Its a massive **** stretch when the topic is Russia invading Europe and you know it full well, but I suppose you have to paint in very broad strokes to cover up Mother Merkels misdeeds at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭eire4


    Your not wrong about the dysfunction that is the broken US political system. Still doesn't change the fact that this should have been done already IMHO. As for planes not buying it. The Americans and NATO have been sending in weaponry from day 1. So suddenly planes are something different that will change the Russians behaviour to escalate things? Not buying that argument. Also as for the planes some of the eastern NATO countries have Mig's that the Ukrainians can use. Getting back to planes been given to Ukraine as opposed to all the other weaponry being something that causes Russia to escalate things. From what I can see other then using nukes not sure what else the Russians can do to escalate now they have added in mass murder on top of all the other disgusting things they have done since they invaded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,507 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I guess getting agreement between a large number of countries is the issue - if it was just one country imposing sanctions, it would be much easier to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Oil and gas is the big player here, doesn't matter what atrocities are committed oil and gas will not be compromised fully I'm thinking. And with Russia's nuclear threat and a maniac in control I think they can do what they want without any real retaliation. Sad but true.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    After llooking at the atrocities committed and no real affect of other sanctions it's like having as much affect as pissing on a forest fire. Sad truth is our hands are tied.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Only Poland are mad keen to give them Migs. I believe there are three countries with them and the others are not interested. Fear of consequences real or imaginary one might surmise or perhaps just a united front on nixing the idea. As for the Russians I think he now just wants to get those eastern enclaves, the land corridor in the south if he can and then call it a win. Even so it's anyone's guess what he might try to do if there seemed to be direct NATO intervention with aircraft.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It was a catastrophic mistake which has given Russia and China the ability to say "it is no different to what the west do". That is how it is connected. I am certainly no fan of Merkel, the best I could say about her would be that she is extremely naive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,149 ✭✭✭✭briany


    @Vachement

    The situation in Ukraine is abominable, outrageous and absolutely awful but Russia hides behind a constant threat of nuclear Armageddon. It has up to 6,257 warheads and platforms that can deliver them to anywhere on the planet and the response is similarly huge. That’s the insane reality of it.

    The thing is that because all out nuclear war is worse than pretty much any other immediate disaster we can think of, excepting possibly the strike of a massive asteroid, the threat of it could give Putin license to do anything he wants. If he heavily intimates that he really is crazy enough to pull the trigger, the sky could be the limit. What's to stop him issuing an ultimatum saying that if he is not declared unquestioned ruler of the world in two weeks or less, he will launch every single warhead he has? If nothing is as bad as nuclear weapons ending civilization and rendering the world uninhabitable, then why couldn't he? Would we rather live in a world where Putin was world king, or one where the sun never shone and it was impossible to grow food? There cannot be a red line with Russia if Russia is crazy enough to launch nukes. MAD requires rational actors on all sides.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Actually I would bet a fair few of the ones thinking he is speaking the truth would probably disagree and warn you about falling off the edge of the world. 🙄

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,029 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    You would wonder if the worst came to the worst and Russia launched a nuke would there be a situation where an ultimatum was given to the Russian people before a western response. Such as no further escalation if the Russian people overthrow the regime and prevent any further launches. Or would it just be bedlam and no time for any appeals to common good at that stage?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    40 year old Migs with no real functioning infrastructure network for them is a complete waste of time. The things would be on the ground more getting fixed than flying.

    Drones, Drones and Drones.

    Sophisticated Tech that a child could use.



  • Posts: 192 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That’s the insanity of it. You are potentially playing Russian roulette (seems the name is apt) with a madman.

    In a scenario like that choices would be very limited and bluffs would have to be called.

    The problem for NATO, the EU and others is managing a way out of this and minimising casualties and I suspect that we are headed towards an even weirder version of the Cold War.

    They are clearly hoping beyond hope that the rational actors within the Russian system call a halt to this before it ends up in a situation that can’t be walked back from.

    With this level of threat being aimed towards neighbours, Russia doesn’t have much of a future other than isolation, growing poverty and decline. Hopefully, there are enough decent and sane people within their power structures to put an end to this and begin to take steps to walk back from it and return to some kind of sanity.

    There are almost 150 million people in Russia, and a large number of people throughout its governmental, political and military structures and they simply favour cannot all be in absolute agreement with this madness, despite the propaganda. It does nothing other than lead towards scenarios where the outcome is bad, extremely bad or world ending.

    Pariah state, or smouldering nuclear wasteland, along with having had a legacy of destroying civilisation and still having pariah state on an epitaph that there won’t necessarily even be anyone to read.

    We need to be very urgently appealing to every aspect of the decent side of Russia to end this and turn the country around. It’s already very late, and there will be long term consequences for this, but it’s never too late. There are other and better paths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,802 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    It's come to the stage the EU have to stop buying gas and oil from Russia. We're fueling this genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    You be sick of NATO and EU talking nonsense on the sidelines and letting Russia do what they want in Ukraine. Nothing will be done by them with Russias war crimes. They are corrupt as fcuk. Ar$eholes. More sanctions for Russia oh yeah that's really going to stop Putin and Russia without cutting off buying oil from Russia. They are failing to hit Russia where it hurts. I repeat Ar$eholes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Twitter move on Russian government accounts.





  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Oil is already close to fully compromised. I think some people do not understand how difficult it is to replace Russian gas - it comes via pipelines and alternatives simply don't exist. Oil has generally come via vessel and has slowed to a trickle which is mostly just old contracts that can't be gotten out of. The will is (roughly) there, but it requires more imports by LNG (of which there is limited capacity) or other pipelines which are many, many years away. Or a complete move away from gas which has its own problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    If it hasn't happened after the accounts of atrocities and pictures of children's bodies we have seen lately, it's not going to happen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Well, my "cold & hungry" phrase was actually referring to the energy crisis that would result from more severe action being taken against Russia - I did type "to save lives NOW".

    My point was that saving Ukrainian lives by embarking on military intervention in Ukraine would not NECESSARILY have sparked a nuclear confrontation, yet the mere hint of their use by Putin was enough to make a huge amount of human suffering "worth it to keep the peace".

    Your portrayal of something that has never happened is remarkably specific in it's apocalyptic outcome.

    You are assuming that chains of command would unquestionably obey the orders of a fruitcake. We know that in the US, plans were in place to circumnavigate Trump if he decided on anything rash towards the end of his tenure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Ehh how do you appeal to them ?

    I mean they have limited access to free information at this stage.

    Anyone that dares speak out or even voice any concern, like that teacher, is fined, jailed or even worse.

    This whole thing is beginning to look eerily like WW2 in some respects.

    Granted the Russian military never got going unlike the Germans, but at this stage it looks like they are being led by a looper that looks disconnected from reality.

    The people are either sheeple thinking they are on the cusp of the restoration of greatness or haven't a clue and don't care too much.

    Some of these people would only cop on when they are living in a bombed out mess with no food, water and viewing occupiers with a gun to their heads.

    Do not expect there to be a popular uprising where the people rise up en masse.

    The last time that happened in Russia was in 1917 and the state was already on it's knees with a leader that hadn't a 100th of the control Putin has over the population.

    The only hope this doesn't keep going is that a group within the top security services and/or military take decisive action and take Putin and his cronies out.

    One thing Putin muist have considered is how loyal is the army?

    Even in Germany when the top brass of the Wehrmacht really knew the gig was up in 1944 (or even well before) they failed to act in unison.

    It was only a few that tried to take Hitler out, the rest just saw duty and dedication to the state as being the only things that mattered.

    And these were often from Prussian aristocratic military families.

    What are the officer class in the Russian Army like, are there free thinkers, are there ones who see Putin as a great leader to restore the glory of the Red Army or ones that see him and his cronies as the ones literally selling out the successor to the Red Army?

    What units are based near Moscow?

    Are they specialist units there to guard the Kremlin or is a rag tag normal soldiers ?

    If this end comes it will come very fast.

    There will be no trial, just a bullet to the back of the head.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭eire4


    I was just thinking that the Moldovans should invite forces from NATO to do some exercises right beside Transnistria so they would be sitting right there at the Russians backs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There is no reason to think Putin is any way insane or mad.


    Bad is not always mad.



  • Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah that poster is well known in the CT forum apparently and are a big Putin & Orbán fan.

    The latter mentioned leader has a few supporters in this thread also, going by the thread about him. One of them was claiming that kids have to be taught about gay people in school in order to become gay last time I checked.

    Also being brexiters their contributions to this thread have been at the same level.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    I notice how you explicitly avoid every aspect of my post and then claim: "but it's probably fake". My post is not about that single incident; it is about the principles of the rules of war and how soldiers should conduct themselves.

    How about you address even one of the questions I've posed or points I've made? Is it okay to execute unarmed and furthermore bound prisoners in your warped world view? You're fine with Ukrainian prisoners also being treated that way? Every prisoner should be summarily executed because it's a war-zone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,434 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The premise of your argument is that the video is grounded in truth.

    You've form. This is more of the same.


    The end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,507 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If you're wondering how Channel One are reporting Bucha - totally demented apparently. Their latest take is that the West planned the 'hoax' for weeks, with the aim of discrediting Russia.

    If we ever pondered what the Third Reich would have looked like with television during the War, we're finding out now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭eire4


    Fair enough. I am certainly no expert on these things. Bottom line for me is they should be getting whatever they need and getting it yesterday.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,173 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Russians kill indiscriminately, whether you're a soldier, an old woman, a mother, a girl - not to mention all the other barbaric stuff they are doing

    Ukrainians soldiers kill some of those Russian soldiers

    I'm struggling to see how the two are the same thing?



This discussion has been closed.
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