General Star Trek thread

pixelburp · 25-03-2022 11:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833287#Comment_118833287

Oh I agree, and I'm speaking as someone who hasn't touched Season 4 - and probably never will. But you also know full well that if Trek did cover Voter Suppression, the same voices would be out screaming "keep politics out of Trek! It's too divisive!"

Evade · 25-03-2022 12:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833272#Comment_118833272

There are posters on this forum, myself included, who have had that complaint and if you'd actually watched the posted video it's about as far from raging as you can get. There are YouTube channels that will decry things as woke etc at the drop of a hat and about an equal amount that will decry something as whatever-ist equally as quickly. But maybe we should focus on the video in question.

Picking ham-fisted messages from TOS is a little easy, some examples from the other 90% of old Star Trek would be nice for a change.

pixelburp · 25-03-2022 12:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833424#Comment_118833424

I started watching the video, and found it exactly the kind of overblown hyperbole typical of what I spoke of. The author spoke of it being "created by the woke left", so no, I don't agree the video was either sober or avoided the usual blather. Raging no, but still full of that kind of absolutist polemic, creating meaning from what ... a 30 second cameo at the bookend of the series? It's a bad start when the title pleads "why X matters". It doesn't, it really doesn't. God knows there's plenty to hammer Discovery on, but constantly returning to this well of "it's too political, look at all the woke everywhere" as a means of dissection is lazy, reductive and overblown.

As I said already, it's especially disingenuous when it's aimed at someone whose career is focused on Voters' Rights. If it was Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez appearing on the show, then there might be an argument. But Abrams seems like a decent person trying to scrub a problem state of its continued issues with voter impression. But then as @breezy1985 said, better had an episode actually dealt with the subject than use one of its chief advocates.

TNG had its own fair share of clumsy allegory as well, episodes like The Outcast being also commonly name-dropped; but the Original Series is just convenient as it was the literal foundation of the universe. When from the very beginning the franchise aimed itself towards topical politics, I can't say I'm surprised when it continues along that bent. It's has always had a very liberal outlook.

Stark · 25-03-2022 12:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833287#Comment_118833287

President Schwartzenegger ruined "Demolition Man" for me.

(That's a lie, it made the film for me).

Stark · 25-03-2022 12:38PM

I can't be arsed watching that video. But if anyone thinks any of the Trek shows would have taken a neutral apolitical stance on say Trump, they really don't get Trek.

Evade · 25-03-2022 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833567#Comment_118833567

Has Trump been alluded to in any of the modern series? I know Stewart said Picard was a reaction to Trump and Brexit but it didn't really come across like that unless the shambolic mess of the first series was an intentional reference.

Rawr · 25-03-2022 01:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833817#Comment_118833817

I think the closest we got was the new Klingons in Discovery apparently being a reference to MAGA people. Seems like a bad fit, knowing the Klingons as we do. If I were them and was going for a reference for MAGA-cultism I would have been more inclined to go with the likes of the Dominion and their cultist devotion to The Founders.

TaurenDruid · 25-03-2022 02:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833121#Comment_118833121

which allowed the audience to think about and make a judgement, before Picard (or indeed Kirk) drove a message home.

"Wait... that guy is white on his left side and black on his right side - and that guy is white on his right side and black on his left side... is... is racism bad and stupid?"

Yes. Subtle as a brick!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833272#Comment_118833272

This!

25-03-2022 02:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833937#Comment_118833937

I didn't say it was subtle but it presented the story a hell of a lot better than anything Discovery has.

That was intentionally stupid, I feel, to show just how stupid judging someone on colour really is.

But I remember watching that, as a kid, and thinking how idiotic those two were. Before any character said that they were stupid.

That's the difference. As obvious as the message was it let young me come to the conclusion as opposed telling me that I MUST come to that conclusion.

Evade · 25-03-2022 02:16PM

Sometimes though Star Trek might go too far in portraying both sides of an issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OEtZAlD0TE

eadrom · 25-03-2022 02:39PM

It's the season-long story telling that kills it for me, I think.

"Trek has always been as subtle as a hammer about its politics" -- maybe in an episode here and there and maybe not always handled the best, but then the next one was a wild adventure on the holodeck, or a courtroom drama, or something about Klingon politics, or a time-bending mystery, or... etc. etc.

Now it's all mushed together and spread too thin. Every episode is about all the issues. Can't just have an episode dealing with Earth in the 32nd century, and another about N'var, and then another that's just a bit of fun, or a bit of action. All these people, places, and themes overstay their welcome and "space" feels very very small.

And what gets me too is that Discovery has utterly failed to show us a world worth aspiring towards, either in the 22nd or 32nd century. But they expect us to get warm-fuzzies at the idea of this American politician being the president of the entire planet Earth -- which only last season seemed to be some militaristic hell-hole.

It's no fun.

BruteStock · 25-03-2022 03:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833210#Comment_118833210

The implication that any detractor of the episode would be against an individuals right to vote is so far of a leap that you ended up landing in another continent. That's a whole other argument that wasn't mentioned once in a near 30 minute long presentation.

Going back to P&R , its a moot point because there was no controversy. That's a topical / satirical type of show where real world politicians wouldn't be so out of place. Its actually very rare for real life politicians to feature in fictional TV shows. 7 seasons of The West Wing and how many current politicians at the time ever made cameos , zero? Its not a "yet another" situation.

So I have nothing against SA myself. Rather that I know the casting wasn't in good faith and was done partly to stick it to the other side. That's what people have issue with. Stoking tensions has no place in sci-fi entertainment shows , particularly not a ST show.

Just another point while I'm here since nobody knows anything about me or where I'm coming from. I'm not a Trump support , nor am I a Trump hater. To some that means I'm a supporter but whatever. I've always maintained that Baldwin done a great impression of him. In my view that's where politicians should feature on TV , being satirised and spoofed. In the 90's SNL spoofed both sides in equal measure , low and behold it was the greatest era of SNL that will ever exist. These days Jim Carey says he does Joe Biden once and never again , despite Biden offering plenty opportunity for comedy. A quick explanation for that would be left wing(democrat) politics and entertainment has fused together. That's a cause for concern when it comes to creativity.

pixelburp · 25-03-2022 03:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834328#Comment_118834328

Indeed it would be quite the leap, had I made it.

Rawr · 26-03-2022 07:53AM

Just as a sort of aside to the whole Politics & "Left-leaning woke agenda" arguments in Trek. I'd echo Pixelburp's sentiments and that while we'd often get political messages and ideas in Trek...it was all done within the packaging of an enjoyable sci-fi adventure show. Generally, you'd be enjoying yourself watching a Trek show and a moral message might just add to that enjoyment, or simply add some depth to the plot.

The moral messaging starts to stick out for me a bit when the show itself starts to fail to be enjoyable. As mentioned before, this was usually due to the scriptwriting. A poor writer wouldn't know how to naturally gel a moral issue into the narrative of a space show. They'd be more inclined to pump the breaks on a high-pressure scene, to start making a speech to declare their point without the any of the finesse we’ve seen before. But even that doesn’t bother me as long as I’m having a good time.

A lot of modern Trek writers, specifically with Discovery do not appear to know how to write a fun Trek show, and so their moral messaging kind of sticks out in an already unenjoyable slog of a space drama. If they can make Trek enjoyable they can tick off a whole load of check boxes on the “woke agenda” for all I care as long as they get that enjoyment bit right first.

breezy1985 · 26-03-2022 09:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118837375#Comment_118837375

Practically everything about Disco can be explained by this. It's also why TNG got away with bad acting or canon mistakes or whatever. Because at the end of the day there was enough good that you were enjoying it.

If you had Burnham's whispering back in TNG we would all just laugh it off like Sisco's shouting and yelping. But on Disco it's just another lump for the pile.

pixelburp · 26-03-2022 10:02AM

This is the fundamental rot at the heart of all new Trek. The writing is total shíte, taking cues from the worst emotion dominant, "tell don't show" priorities poisoning a lot of middleground US dramas: even Picard succumbs to jt and I'm enjoying the season so far despite some absolute clunkers in the writing. The writing and plot structure is often fúcking woeful. The politics rise to the top cos that's the only part the writers can commit to and be sure of - but without the structure of good storytelling to hide it all, you get this huffing and puffing from those who think it's all politics led. It ain't, it's just the writers aren't smart enough to mix it better. All this chatter about "the woke left" ascribes conspiracy and a degree of scheming bereft of the writing team. They're really not that smart.

Evade · 28-03-2022 11:20PM

Rawr · 29-03-2022 07:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849457#Comment_118849457

Q: You hit me?! Picard never hit me.

The Sisko: You leave his name out of your f***ing mouth!

pixelburp · 05-04-2022 04:48PM

Trailer for a Voyager documentary, from the same folks who made that DS9 doc What We Left Behind; watching Ethan Phillips and Robert Picardo bicker like an old married couple was quite cute...

https://youtu.be/jCeqPGDp6D4

05-04-2022 06:01PM

Well that seems to cover the unease some of the cast felt.

Wonder how far down the Mulgrew Vs Ryan rabbit hole they'll go. She's conspicuous by her absence

breezy1985 · 05-04-2022 06:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833911#Comment_118833911

I think MAGA Klingons would have worked very well post DS9 where they have been getting too lovey dovey with the Federation and Romulans for so long. Imagine Martok offered to help the Romulan refugees and some lads decide taking advantage is better

Evade · 05-04-2022 06:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884937#Comment_118884937

Jeri Ryan is listed on the IMDB credits, Roxanne Dawson too. They might not have gotten around to their interviews yet.

breezy1985 · 05-04-2022 06:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884585#Comment_118884585

That photo is such a big Fk U to Kes. Would not be hard to photoshoot her in.

Poor not as hot as 7 Kes

eadrom · 05-04-2022 06:24PM

Looks like they're getting the crew back together for Picard Season 3.

https://twitter.com/StarTrekOnPPlus/status/1511388196398985219?s=20&t=dZx4L4wkC-GRZEszeS1lrw

https://gizmodo.com/star-trek-picard-season-3-the-next-generation-cast-retu-1848751857

That's fine. Hope it's decent.

TheValeyard · 05-04-2022 08:17PM

How the bejaysus are they going to work Data into it...... AGAIN?

05-04-2022 08:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885544#Comment_118885544

B4

eadrom · 05-04-2022 08:47PM

I was assuming the Soong from season 1

TheValeyard · 05-04-2022 09:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885710#Comment_118885710

B4 failed though right?

Ah fcuk it. We'll see. So I'm taking it Season 3 is a goodbye to TNG.

Anyone think Disney might do a better job? They've done great work with The Mandalorian, Loki, etc

Could they work Trek?

flazio · 05-04-2022 09:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885891#Comment_118885891

I don't think Paramount are for sale.

TheValeyard · 05-04-2022 09:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885898#Comment_118885898

Oh I know. Just curious to see who could make it work. Trek has such deep and rich lore with a deeply invested fan base. Just a shame its not reaching its full potential.

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