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2% max rental increase allowed inflation 7% plus

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13567…12

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    #62
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880726#Comment_118880726

    During those years landlords taxes went up by a significant amount. Also their risk went up considerably too. I have been watchinbg it a while trying to decide if it was worth investing in a rental property or not., At some point I just drew a line under it all and said I wouldnt bother.



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    #63
    Fattybojangles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Fattybojangles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880767#Comment_118880767

    Because tenants are simply people looking for a place to live Landlords are people who have voluntarily gone into a business and are now whinging and moaning about the realities of said business.



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    #64
    Fattybojangles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Fattybojangles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880866#Comment_118880866

    Perhaps if they cut down on the avocado on toast they'd be able to afford these things.



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    #65
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879399#Comment_118879399

    Many thanks for showing that you clearly dont know the industry and provided no facts or info to back up what you talk about. Great talk. Give the man a noble prize.



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    #66
    Fattybojangles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Fattybojangles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879690#Comment_118879690

    Yes a small minority were in negative equity during the last recession and some of them became landlords but it is incredibly disingenuous to claim that that is the case now. Yes it's only right and proper that you pay tax on your profits in your business.



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    #67
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,597 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882549#Comment_118882549

    'Small minority?' care to explain where you get your statistical insights from? Or are you just pulling them out of your backside?

    Post 55 of this thread, so just a few posts above yours, is someone explaining how they are currently an accidental landlord. There are definitely a lot of people people out there stuck and still waiting for their property value to recover to at least those during the celtic tiger years so they can get out of negative equity. It is incredibly disingenuous of you to state otherwise.

    Face it, you just have a bee in your bonnet towards landlords. Why? I do not know. Jealousy maybe?

    I'm happy to pay my 40% back to the taxman by the way, never said otherwise. Have to contribute to the economy, you know? I hope you do the same.



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    #68
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,512 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    People can argue about why LL are leaving the market all they like but the fact is that even if they weren't leaving we'd still need more to enter the market.

    Can't really blame the deficit of new LL on a lack of negative equity.



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    #69
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118878140#Comment_118878140


    Landlords should really start to learn basics about taxation.

    Business income is taxed at commerical tax rates. But the remaining money belongs to the business. If it is subsequently paid out to the business owner, it is then subject to his personal income tax

    Any landlord is free to set up their business as an actual business if they so wish.



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    #70
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880767#Comment_118880767


    Because the state restricts the supply of housing. By interfering in the market in that way, it pushes the price of the assets up beyond where they would normally be. It has to then ameliorate that imbalance somewhat by putting in some basic protections



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    #71
    Fattybojangles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Fattybojangles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882585#Comment_118882585

    I don't have a problem with landlords per se I just can't stand the constant pity party and poor me stuff from landlords. The constant refusal to admit there is any profit in it the accidental landlord sob stories and the constant crying about having to pay tax. No pity for the people who are spending 40-60% of their incomes paying off someone else's mortgage? Oh no!



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    #72
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118878338#Comment_118878338


    No. Investment and business are two separate concepts.

    I can put 1000 Euro into Prize Bonds or a 5-year State savings plans in the morning. It doesn't mean I am going into business. I can go and buy a share in Apple. I wouldn't immediately then rush to claim I'm in the business of technology


    I am commenting only on your definition of business. Not on whether renting out a house counts as one.



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    #73
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,597 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882625#Comment_118882625

    To be perfectly honest, there's a pity party from all sides in the country when it comes to housing.

    Landlords are annoyed and frustrated by the restrictions put on them, renters are annoyed and frustrated by the lack of supply and skyrocketing rental prices.

    Both groups have legitimate concerns and both groups deserve to be heard.

    This 'shut the **** up, fatcat landlord!' schtick is tiresome.



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    #74
    rightmove
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭rightmove


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882524#Comment_118882524

    honestly you dont have a clue. I was a LL and a tenant at the same time. Its kinda like a see-saw, both parties need to have some skin in the game. See saw wont work with one person. Thankfully for me the playground is closed and I and neither a tenant or a LL but your view will eventually (and already has) lead to both parties losing.

    LL will loose more in the short term until they leave and renters have been loosing more in the long term with reduced supply and higher rents and new "professional" LL's



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    #75
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882691#Comment_118882691

    I didn't see anyone say that. No need to be making yourself out to be the victim even further when what is really being said is more along the lines "ah, would ya ever stop moaning. Sure you are in a good situation"



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    #76
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879467#Comment_118879467

    Your 100pc right that they might be sitting on substantial CGT but i suspect its more than that. Sure back in 07/08, why didnt all the LL sell up then as well as they would have been sitting pretty as well. Not all LL have bought at the bottom so you have to ask why are they selling. Taxation and legislation and sentiment around LL have changed so much since 08.



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    #77
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880726#Comment_118880726

    Costs have gone up. PRSI of 4pc was added over the past few years. Labour and material costs have gone up substantially. Risk has also increase due to all the legislation, micky mouse chopping and changing of laws regularly, and lack of security for ll. LPT has increased. you might not agree but basic laws of supply and demand need to be accounted for and this is changing as well.



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    #78
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880726#Comment_118880726

    At the end of the day, LL are doing doing this as a civic duty, we are doing it to make money. Based on your philosophy. Lets say you work and you earn 50k gross. You know you could get 60k gross but to do this you need to leave job and move to another job next door that has the same responsibilities etc because the existing job are not allowed increase your salary to 60k.



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    #79
    houseyhouse
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882691#Comment_118882691

    Agree with this completely. I really feel for people trying to get somewhere to rent these days. It seems awful.

    But I hate the trope of the evil landlord. Landlords didn’t design the current system, which actually incentives landlords to increase rents. It’s a mess.



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    #80
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    This thread reminds me of the two pubs in a village in Kilkenny that I used to spend a lot of time in in my youth for young man reasons :)

    One pub was owned by a local family and people used to go to it all the time. Another pub was owned by an outsider as they referred to him.

    I thought the locally owned one was the nicest and it also seemed to be doing the best of the two.

    As the price of pints went up all over the country the local kept theirs the same because they knew the people coming in and didnt want to put the price up on them. At one point they were about 25p cheaper than the £2.25 that the other pub was charging.

    But one day the local owner had to put their price up to match because they were losing money and their accountant told them either close or start making a profit.

    People got p!ssed off with them for betraying them and gouging and went to the other pub. The other pub then lowered their prices by 5p a pint and even more people went. About 2 years later the locally owned pub closed for good and became a row of houses. Then the remaining pub got very expensive altogether.



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    #81
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Grumpypants



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882596#Comment_118882596

    God, I would love it if landlords were treated like other businesses. Allowed to set their pricing in line with the market just like other businesses, allowed to remove non-paying customers like other businesses. Those two alone would be great.



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    #82
    Fattybojangles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Fattybojangles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882752#Comment_118882752

    Then leave and stop moaning simple as.



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    #83
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882974#Comment_118882974


    You have a lot to learn about business. Businesses do not have absolute power in any of those realms.

    Any business which is subject to the same restrictions on supply as housing is are also subject to for more strict downstream regulations too. You can't be all for regulation when it benefits you and then be suddenly all moany when something is against you



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    #84
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882792#Comment_118882792


    So your argument is that we should have stopped the pubs putting up their prices at the start? You want rent controls?

    Or is it that we should stop indirectly subsidising the people who can't make a profit? Obviously the other pub was able to make a profit. If the first pub had sold up earlier he could have given his privileged position of having a licence to someone else who could have made it work.


    For those who don't want any government "intervention" I'd like to see how that might work out in reality if you got what you wanted. Residential tenants rights reduced to commerical tenants rights. But also no public money used to pay for privately owned accommodation. No more HAP or other rent allowances. And no restrictions on building or planning permission.



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    #85
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883033#Comment_118883033

    Whooosh!



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    #86
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883053#Comment_118883053

    Well that is the conclusion from your little story. I don't think you thought it through!



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    #87
    houseyhouse
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883060#Comment_118883060

    I understood his point to be that we punish those who are decent when they can no longer afford to be so decent and then we’re stuck with those who were not concerned about being decent to begin with.



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    #88
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883075#Comment_118883075


    Why should the State indirectly subsidize the first fella just because his family probably held onto a privileged rent-seeking position which was granted to them a few generations ago?

    If you are going to restrict licences and award them to a select number of people, why would you award it to the person who can't make a profit at the price point the other fella can do it?

    Person A nees to sell a pint at 3 Euro and make a profit. Person B can run their business more efficiently and sell a pint at 2.50 and make a profit. Why would we award that licence to A????????


    What happened in your mans story was that the market opened up just a little and the inefficient fella lost his business. Yet you have posters on here asking for controls against rent increases to be opened up. Be careful what you wish for. You might end up chewed up and spit out like the first publican!



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    #89
    houseyhouse
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883099#Comment_118883099

    ???

    I’m not talking about state subsidies. I’m talking about the customers/citizens. We hold different people to different standards. There are consequences to that. I’m not saying it’s a perfect analogy for the rental situation, but that’s how I understood his point. But he’s well able to answer for himself!



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    #90
    macvin
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    I'm a landlord of two small properties.

    I won't be increasing rent and would be about 30% below today's crazy market. I have also told the tenants that I have no plan to increase rents next year either as I'm happy with what i am getting. Both sets of tenants pay by direct debit and don't annoy me over minor issues.

    It is nice that the value of the properties have increased substantially in the last few years, so that combined with the net rent after tax has meant they have been exceptional investments.



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    #91
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883141#Comment_118883141


    His story ends with a situation where there is one pub remaining and he puts up his prices. The government obviously restricts any competition through both its planning and licensing regulations.

    The owner of that pub says "This is my business, I do it for profit. I want to be able to charge what I like when I like". He says "I don't receive any subsidies" because he doesn't understand. People now come into his pub and pay 8 Euro per drink as it is their only option. The government say "we're putting a cap on a pint of 8 Euro". The publican cries again - "but this is my business and it should be free market".

    Then the government get fed up with him moaning and relent and remove the cap and all restrictions to actually let the "free market" work. The publican puts his prices up to 10 Euro. Nobody comes. He puts his price back down to 8 Euro. Still nobody comes. He puts his price down to 5 Euro. Still nobody. But the streets are full of drunk people and there is music everywhere. Down to 4 Euro. Still nobody. He eventually learns that a dozen people in the town opened up shebeens in the town after restrictions went and are charging only 2 Euro a pint.

    The publican eventually realises he was, in fact, being indirectly subsidised by the State. The State ultimately being the people therein.


    If you are a landlord and find yourself complaining about being a landlord because you are unable to make it work under current rules, then sell up and let someone else, with the ability to do so, make it work. It's not the State's role to modify everything to keep an efficient actor afloat to the detriment of everyone else. Where the State controls the supply side, it has to then control the prices - directly or indirectly. It usually does it by the latter. Which is preferable of course.



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