2% max rental increase allowed inflation 7% plus

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889098#Comment_118889098

Well it is a bit relevant when you said earlier that anyone who rented out property and described it as self-employment was "the height of self-delusion". It seems that the term is used by both Revenue and DSP.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887923#Comment_118887923

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889143#Comment_118889143

You're attempt at an insult of "not having a clue" is merely an attempted projection of your own inadequacies.

While you might find the whole concept of renting out something - receiving the use of it and paying something in return - to be taxing on your brain. It is actually quite a simple concept.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889157#Comment_118889157

It isn't self employment. You just pay the same rate of PRSI.

You will be subject to the same rates of income tax as a doctor. It doesn't mean you are a doctor FFS

If a person with a property rented out loses their job after 10 years continuous employment, they will get jobseekers. Unless you want to suggest that they shouldn't as they are still "self-employed"?

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888683#Comment_118888683

Wait a minute. All this time you are thinking that being a landlord is a "high reward" investment !! FFS.

How do you figure that out?

Unfortunately, people are daft enough to think that if the landlord gets 2K rent a month, that means they are making 24K a year.

The vast majority of landlords run at a loss for decades until the debt is paid off, at which time they will start to make a small profit. The pay off isn't until they sell and the capital that has been built up is released. Even at that point, it is unlikely to be any great windfall when you consider the total outlay and effort put in.

A minimum wage job would pay more than most landlords make. (20K a year for 30 years is 600K)

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889048#Comment_118889048

What subsidy are you on about? Landlords should pay their tax, there is no need for any tax relief or subsidy (they don't get any anyway). They should be allowed to put their service out to the public at a price they chose and if someone wants to use it they should pay for it.

It's a pretty simple concept. If I want to charge ten grand a week for my house, and you don't want to pay ten grand a week, then don't enter into a contract that says you will rent it for ten grand a week to rent my house.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889395#Comment_118889395

What do you think Grumpypants. 500k in the bank. Risk free is that I can stick it into State Savings and have 550k in 10 years. That is your base rate of return.

Do you think that if I use it to buy a house, rent it out for 10 years (even just saving the income) and sell it at year 10, that I might have more than 550k at the end of it?

You're exhibiting a massive misunderstanding of your own "investment" by saying you "run a loss". You are not running anything. You are just paying for an asset over time. At the end of it, you get all that juicy capital tax free (up to the initial price ......... that you used someone else's capital to actually pay for.). The strange thing ios that you are going on about "outlay" and "effort". For the former, as stated, you appear to be borrowing other people's money to put it in, and then if it is too much of an effort, then frankly, maybe it isn't for you. It's a relatively passive investment. You can't count the "capital" twice. You either pay it up front or you are paying it off over the life of the mortgage. But you only pay it once.

It would be a bit like if the government brought in another SSIA type scheme and I maxed it out, all the while complaining I was "running at a loss"

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889143#Comment_118889143

I thought young and inexperienced tbh.......

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888203#Comment_118888203

If you just consider rental rates alone without thinking of other factors like

Quality of life

The kind of society/damage to social cohesion

Cost of living and transaction

Difficulty in transacting etc

Etc

Then yes you might think that about people, I think I made it vlear it wasn't just the rental rate. Its not a functioning market and its increasingly becoming a dysfunctional society that's what depresses me.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889175#Comment_118889175

now I really know you havent got a clue.😆

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889765#Comment_118889765

I'm not disagreeing.

However when one can accept the principle that there was a necessity for the state to step in due to the greater social good, then they have established that they understand that principle and should not be unable to see the reason behind other similar social measures such as rent controls.

I was trying to buy some property (cash purchase, not residential) before covid came. In the end up the seller did not sell. So I actually had a big chunk sitting there in cash when covid hit. Had the arse fallen out of the market, I'd have been well placed to buy up property at a knock down prices by virtue of pure luck. However I understand, accept, and agree with, the actions taken to protect the economy. I would never complain that they should not have been done because I would have benefited more had they not been.

There appear to be plenty of greedy people on here who moan and are apparently oblivious to the fact that their current position were actually greatly helped by the state and society overall. So when they moan moan moan that the same State puts in some protections which help others slightly and not them, I'm happy to point it out.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889811#Comment_118889811

Don't worry dude. You'll get your head around it some day. Even if you are struggling with it now, just stick at it.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889832#Comment_118889832

Your posting style on this and other recent threads is overly aggressive and overly personal. Please take some time to consider this before posting again. Do not reply to this post.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889473#Comment_118889473

That is your view

Reality is different. When buy a property to rent out most people will expect that initially the rent will not cover the mortgage and expenses. As time moves on the expectation is that will change to the rent exceeding the mortgage and other costs.

After a time many landlords found they were making a profit a profit while still gaining the asset. Now due to the restrictions that profit reduces and may return to a state where they are adding to the rent to cover increased expenses. This will happen while all their income decreases in value. THe only reason they cannot stay inline with inflation is due to government interference.

You might be happy for the LLs to just leave if they don't like it but there are issues with this.

Either way people have a right to complain and also point out the negative effects of the policy

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889473#Comment_118889473

Lots of people thought that in 2005. I'll buy a house now and in ten years it will be worth more. It was worth about 70% less.

I understand the timeline. I also understand a balance sheet. It's the same for most businesses. You put in capital+time, you run at a loss for x days, it takes time for you to break even, then from that point you are in the black and start making money.

The timeline is different depending on the buisiness. That's where "Black Friday" comes from, shops were in the red (running a loss) up until thanksgiving. Then they go into the "black" and start making money. so they flog off the stock at a discount to make room for next year's.

In my case, I bought the house in 2004. I'll be in the red for about another ten years. Then I'll be able to start making some money on it. Maybe 4 or 5 grand a year after tax and costs.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889866#Comment_118889866

Expectations =/= reality.

What is your basis for expecting that a mortgage should cover a capital asset which doesn't really depreciate? Other than you want it to?

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889157#Comment_118889157

That is just silly now. Read case V income!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889951#Comment_118889951

Again, I think you are double counting the capital. You either put the capital in, or you had an agreement with a lender where they put in the capital and you paid them back over time. If you go to DID electrical and buy a 1000 Euro TV on finance deal so that a finance company pays DID for the TV and you pay them back in 10 installments of 100, you haven't paid both the 1000 and the 1100.

BTW, if you bought in 2004 and you still don't have any real equity in it, something was seriously wrong there. First of all your house has to be valued at more today then it was then - it is a couple of years since they said that houses were back at Celtic Tiger peaks which happened well after 2004. Plus 18 years of either rental income or else saving rent and you still only owe what the property is worth? After an unprecedented period of historically extremely low rates? Man you were lucky the rates didn't go back to normal levels during that time.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889981#Comment_118889981

mrslancasters conclusion, as I pointed out, would mean that nobody who had any investment income or any form, could avail of jobseekers if they lost their day job even if they had been paying stamps for years. I would not agree with that.

mrslancaster

Others may know all about the DSP Benefits associated with Class S PRSI 4% contributions but I don't and was curious about what supports were payable to Class S contributors during the pandemic. I know from @ballyharpat that the support was only made available for Class S contributors who had 'trading income'.

If DSP benefits are only available to citizens who pay Class S Prsi with 'trading income' and not to other contributors, then the information is not very clear IMO.

Maybe landlords have a valid gripe when they say they're taxed more than others if the 4% PRSI must be paid but they're ineligble for any associated benefits. Either it's a Class S contribution with eligibility for the benefits or it's just an extra 4% tax.

Topgear on Dave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887852#Comment_118887852

Like the rest, doesn't know, doesn't care to find out. Homeowning voters are all that really matter along with social housing tenants in long leases.

Iv a few new colleagues looking for places to rent for 3 months now, but none of the politicians will give a damn.

Less landlords = big idealogical victory to people who already own their houses (quite often inherited too)

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889985#Comment_118889985

What you are saying is if you finance that TV for 1000. Pay back 100 a month and then rent it to your neighbour for a tenner a month.

You will have a in your words a "return" of €120 a year. . In my world you run a loss for 8-9 years then you start making money.

You talk about equity like it's some kind of free money. If you buy a house for 200k. Pay off the debt that costs 300k and now it's worth 250k.

You have 250k in "equity" but you are negative 50k overall.

It's all redundant anyway. You don't mix equity with cash flow.

Money in = 10grand. Money out = 11 grand. That is running a loss.

It will stay like that until the debt is cleared. Then it will be a bit more like money in =10 money out =7.

DubCount

Rent control has been tried in many places and the results are always pretty much the same. There are winners and losers among those renting - some sitting tenants paying less than they would have, some tenants paying more as rental stock reduces. Standards of rental property drops (why invest in a property when you cant get the investment back through higher rents and with excess demand, you can rent out anything that meets minimum standards). Tenants are forced to stay in accommodation that doesnt meet their needs, because its too expensive to move or there is nowhere to move to (families stuck in 1 bed apartments etc.). People find ways around the control system (Cash top ups etc.). In the end, rent controls fail to control rents.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that its going to be different in Ireland.

To all those saying "Landlords are creaming it" - why are so many leaving the market, and why not take the chance to invest yourself if its easy money. There are just better returns to be made with less risk elsewhere. Commercial property, foreign property, shares, bonds, REITs...... there are better options out there.

JimmyVik

I find it amusing that certain posters are so full of their own opinion and will not even look at the situation.

All you have to do is open your eyes, read the news and look at the current situation.

Then take a step back and ask why are we in this situation?

An yet you have people here who seem to think landlords are raking it in and not leaving.

The RTB report (massaged as it always is), daft report, general news, supply of rentals available, price of rentals available, ex rentals going up for sale, surely all point to one thing. BEing a landlord is not the dreamy cash cow, easy life some people seem to think it is.

Open your eyes ....

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892489#Comment_118892489

Totally agree with this post. Honestly ppl are stupid and short sighted.

A colleague of mine said no one should ever be evicted in December. I asked what about a non paying tenant sitting in a nice gaff at xmas whilst a decent family might have no where proper to stay and would be willing to pay rent and not act the maggot. Is that fair. !! He ignored and went on his way but before he did I asked about his wifes gaff that was rented. oh... well that just happened to be rented to her brother and when he leaves they will sell it.......handy that eh?

I know someone who is renting a house and cant sell it as the finances are wrapped up in renovation to the house they live in. The house is costing him money and is rented out to the max. Yet this person has done loads of charity work for peter mc verry. the same crowd that would try stop him selling his house if he was ever financially in a position to do so. - its mental! all for looking to be doing the "right " thing. and not thinking the process through

Grumpypants

Exactly! In a time of extremely high rents (and they are high, I'm the first to admit that), if being a landlord was such a "low-risk/high reward" investment then why isn't everyone doing it?

You have people leaving the market at an astonishing rate. You have an unprecedented rate of vacant properties. Why is it someone would rather leave a building to sit empty than rent it out?

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892543#Comment_118892543

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/very-low-rent-in-rent-pressure-zone.226573/

from another site but its a great real example of what the thought process is. Not that the head in the sand ppl (1 or 2) on here will absorb this as its reality and not what they want to think.

Fattybojangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889395#Comment_118889395

Well then why don't you get a minimum wage job then? Why do you insist on being a landlord? Do you enjoy the pity party? No one forces anyone to become a landlord no one forces you to get a mortgage on a property and then rent it out.

Fattybojangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892627#Comment_118892627

So we are meant to feel sorry for someone who was too stupid to know the rules of the business they chose to get involved in?

JimmyVik

I wonder why some posters in this thread dont buy property and become landlords and spend the rest of their lives on easy street :)

Not me though. I prefer the tough road of not being a landlord myself. I like a bit of hardship i do.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892694#Comment_118892694

TBF this is about as stupid a comment as you could make. Do you think its helpful or engaging. Tell that to the renter who will not have a pace to live when another property is gone. Maybe try and be constructive......now there is thought!!!!!