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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yudin's point is that Putin is very dangerous. Not quite a madman, but an obsessive zealot with a huge chip on his shoulder. He thinks Putin is bonkers enough to invade Poland and the Baltics and to try and 'reclaim' them into the Russian sphere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,919 ✭✭✭GM228




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He won't be that stupid though, it's like hoping the school bully will square up against the local boxing champion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I could imagine Putin using a tactical nuclear weapon, if he were to use any sort of nuclear weapon. It just doesn't stand to reason he'd go any bigger than that, if there's any reason left in him. To be clear, to anyone not sure of the 'difference', a tactical nuke is one of a very low yield in comparison to standard nuclear weapons.

    This one developed by the USA is supposed to have had no more than a yield of 1kt. By comparison, the Beirut blast had something like 2.5 thousand tonnes of explosive material in that warehouse when it all went off. Maybe Russia has something similar.

    But it's crazy we're even talking about the possibility.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,895 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    I don't think 'losing' in Ukraine, unless it's a total rout which still looks very unlikely, would be enough to make Putin go full retard with the nukes. Could still see him dropping a 'tactical' one on Kiev, but in the confident expectation the west would not respond in kind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭JoChervil




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh I'm quite sure some do approve, others have engaged their propaganda reality distortion field because "our" troops don' target civilians.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,441 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    @Bayonet take some time away from CA for continuing to post in this thread while threadbanned



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The problem is how do you deal with a major nuclear power that’s basically gone rogue?

    The comparisons even with tackling the likes of the Nazi German regime and it’s allies in the 1930s and 40s don’t really apply, as none of those powers had weapons that could end civilisation.

    From what I can see of it the best we can probably hope for is containing Russia and hoping its own people drive change.

    What’s happening in Ukraine is absolutely horrendous beyond words and we are all justifiably outraged by it. The problem is western or any other powers have very limited scope to intervene directly.

    A nuclear war is something that just isn’t winnable. It would basically be kamikaze mission and could result in hundreds of millions, possibly even billions dead and decades of dire poverty and probably the end of civilisation as we know it.

    It’s a total mess and Putin fully knows how much power he wields because of it.

    Seems we are left with a situation where all we can do is keep imposing sanctions and sending a message that they have basically left the civilised world.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, denying responsibility not because they don't approve of it, but because they think it might reflect badly on the regime (even though they are probably secretly thrilled that Ukrainian civilians are being slaughtered).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,604 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    It may not be discussed in your " wide social circle " but there is a whole new world out there when you leave primary school!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You’d really have to wonder about humanity though. The minute a bit of tech comes along someone weaponises it.

    Nuclear weapons have to quite literally be the most ludicrous and self destructive devices ever conceived. If a person suggested something similar as tactic in their life, they’d be getting interviewed by a forensic psychiatrist and probably checked into a secure facility. Yet when countries do it, it’s just defence / war.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    To be fair to Glenomra among people I know through life and work Ukraine is being discussed a lot less than covid was. I suppose a huge part of that is covid was affecting us all more personally and directly.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Good run through of the battle for Kyiv, it's scary how the close the Russians came to achieving their goal.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭garlic bread


    I agree with you in ways Glenmora. Personally have been following this invasion online and on TV since it started and it has had a profound effect on me. The depths of evil and depravity that these poor people are being subjected to is hard to comprehend. I have done what little I can, donated money and we are waiting to hear from the red cross regarding taking in refugees here in our home. However, I definitely do notice that a lot of people have moved on now, the talk is covid or the price of diesel. While I understand that its explained as 'compassion fatigue ', I just don't understand it. I wake at night and all I can think about is stories of murders and rapes. I know we have lived through other atrocities (I'm mid 40s), but I think this war will stay with me for a long time. The brutality - hearing about little girls being raped, how can these soldiers be such animals? So while I do agree that a lot of people have moved on, I also think that a lot, like myself and others posting here, have been really affected by this war. It is so hard to believe we are seeing this in 2022.





  • Pure evil this regime. It's unfathomable how people can think like this and diagram that.

    Also I'm fearful people worrying over cost of living will turn some of the more self serving amongst us against Ukrainians. We must realise the cost of sanctions against the Russians is going to have an impact in our wartime economy.

    It's a price I for one am willing to pay.



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sadly a lot of technology comes from war/military research, including in part the media and technology you are using to post your opinions, and the microwave oven you might have.

    I understand what you are saying, but in another analogy you have some people claiming that God talks to them, but rather than being locked up other people put them on T. V. and send them money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Our holidays, well-fitting clothes, and "much needed" home makeovers are NOT more important than even a tiny fraction of what the Ukrainian people are enduring. We are lazy, dumbed-down, self-absorbed and marinated in luxury. The Ukrainian people are LITERALLY our front line troops.

    The "Soviet" ethos is built on the unimportance of people, that's why it's continued promotion needs to be stopped. The "Soviet" ethos is gargantuan bullsh!t.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Good theories there. I am not sure that Ukraine actually shot down those IL76's though?

    But indeed, it sounds plausible. Plan A, rush the capital's airport, fly in thousands of paratroopers, take over key institutions and TV, declare victory to the nation, over in hours. With a backup three day plan B to encircle the capital. It's obvious things went very, very wrong with Russian plans.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    While my concerns about a wider nuclear exchange has receded a fair bit, I sadly won't be too surprised if a tactical nuke is indeed deployed by Russia in Ukraine. I hope I'm very very wrong, but if so I'd reckon it will be fired on a "military target"(or one made up by Russia) rather than a city. The ultimate sabre rattle by putin and one he knows will work unlike his army and air force. Sadly the West can't really respond in kind or things go to an absolute hell very very quickly and putin knows it or at least believes it. Plus he's much less likely to get pushback from underlings all the way to the actual button pusher compared to targeting a city. And what has he got to further lose? Russia is a pariah state already. His foreign reserves are frozen, he's politically frozen out, his oligarch lords are squeezed to hell and Russia is looking down both barrels of at least a decade of recession, if not depression. Sanctions are very strong and likely to get stronger as nations pivot away from Russian assets like oil and gas. But him and his will always be looked after. IMHO the tactical nuke is more of an option for him now, after his original plan to take Kyiv and install a puppet is in tatters.

    If he does loose that horror on the world then Russia and yes, Russians too should, must be completely and utterly frozen out of the civilised world and anyone who gives them succour ditto. Close embassies, expel their diplomats and businessmen and women. Heavily fine any western business that deals with them and sanction any nation who does.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.





  • Russia have a huge victim mentality the psychopathic ****.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I suspect that arrangements may be in place between Russian military and the "West" in the event that Putin goes full rogue.

    The "West" may even have had a "quiet word" in Putin's ear, to the effect that his nuclear plans, if implemented, might not execute as he envisages.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s worth also understanding the psychology of simple empathy vs compassion.

    Empathy is a bit like a mirror. It allows you to project yourself into, feel and interpret what others feel. It’s huge part of what we are and how we socially function. It’s usually very positive, but people can also just become completely overwhelmed, go cold and dismissive, or even become aggressive towards what they start to perceive as a source of pain, as they can’t process it.

    You see that for example with the response that someone might have by cutting off and not contacting a friend who has a terminal illness or some complex and painful situation like has been recently bereaved.

    It’s usually not out of nastiness, but an empathetic response that has been completely overwhelmed and they can’t cope.

    It’s also why some medics and similar can become cold / hard and unapproachable. Others become compassionate and helpful, but don’t allow themselves to just burn out.

    The contrast is a compassionate response, where you have a sense of empathy, but it triggers a response to do something to attempt to help and solve the problem for the person you’re feeling empathy for and your sense of having helped drives you.

    It’s extremely important that in a crisis situation we focus on that kind of response and not simply become overwhelmed and burn out. That’s also the problem with modern communication technology. It can elicit a huge empathic response, but can be so overwhelming that people begin to burn out. It keeps highlighting the horror and doesn’t always provide a context where people can help.

    Ireland has shown a huge degree of practical response in terms of helping refugees and I think that’s hugely important in how we process this ourselves too. It’s all too easy to watch & become burned out and just build a mental wall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Too late now Tony, sanctions are coming back in your face more than you could imagine.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭blackcard


    Why are atrocities being carried out by some at least of the Russian army? Are they evil? Brainwashed? Desensitised by the war? Because they can? To cause terror? To demoralise the Ukrainians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,895 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Was discussing this with someone upthread and they reckoned if Putin dropped a nuke or two on Ukraine the West would have to respond with massive air strikes on the Russian motherland. But IMO that would seriously risk nuclear escalation and what exactly would be the point? To 'teach Putin a lesson'? Surely he would be far beyond the point of learning lessons at that stage?

    If he does go down that road your plan is about the best the West could do in response

    If he does loose that horror on the world then Russia and yes, Russians too should, must be completely and utterly frozen out of the civilised world and anyone who gives them succour ditto. Close embassies, expel their diplomats and businessmen and women. Heavily fine any western business that deals with them and sanction any nation who does.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭Notmything


    Unless you intend to personally enlist in the army of a NATO country there is no "we".



This discussion has been closed.
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