Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I think this is the wrong direction entirely. We should work to integrate Russia not further alienate it after any war. Imagine a European union with a modern democratic Russia at the center of it, supplying raw materials to industrial Europe. That's the long term vision, not building new iron curtains where mistrust conspiracy and propaganda can fester. I think this is probably the policy that Merkel was following when integrating with Russian gas, she was being optimistic. Unfortunately the Putin regime saw an olive branch as weakness and decided to destroy the tiny amount of trust that could have enhanced the opportunities and standard of living for all Russians.

@myfreespirit

Eh, Kaliningrad is literally part of Russia. I know it's an exclave, but it's still a part of Russia. The only way you could incorporate it into the EU would be to incorporate Russia, or else change its constitutional status either by diplomacy or by force.

Admitting Georgia and Armenia would be a mistake as those countries currently exist, and I think Russia/Turkey know that and keep those countries poor and half-destroyed through endless border disputes. If you let them in, you suddenly have a load of Balkan countries going, "Hey, WTF! You let them in, but we're stuck in limbo?!", you would have plenty of Georgians and Armenians coming west to look for work and live better (and who could blame them), but those countries would be unable to offer much of their own in terms of work. And you would have EU countries having to get involved when Russia or Azerbaijan/Turkey turn the screw again.

There are reasons why the EU have membership criteria in place, and if those are contravened through well-meaning charity, it would probably be the beginning of the end for the bloc, and a Europe without an EU is a bad place because of what the EU keeps a lid on.

Hear hear. The fact that that Koenigsburg “exclave” they stole after WW2 is allowed still function to/from the “mainland” is ridiculous. Cut them off and hang them dry

That's exactly what Europe tried to do in the 1990s and early 2000s, and it didn't exactly turn out to be a roaring success. We need to confront the fact that Russia has no interest in any political union that it cannot dominate at will. Given the rabid nationalism rampant in that country, even amongst generations that you'd think would be more open-minded, the west should not kid itself that Russia will become any type of reliable partner once Putin leaves the stage. Maybe things will change twenty to thirty years down the line but given what it took for Germany to give up on its fascist tendencies after a much shorter bout with extreme nationalism & fascism, I doubt I'll live long enough to see that happen.

Then again, I still remember sitting in the living room as a kid and watching events unfolding on a certain November night in 1989 together with my parents and grandma. I remember all of them saying that they'd never thought they'd live long enough to see the Berlin Wall come down. Here's hoping we see another such miracle.

Merkel wanted cheap energy but wanted it farmed out to Russia so she could pander to the woke “green” Agenda and climate change cult at home by shutting down local nuclear and coal production.

The more I now reflect on her legacy the worse it gets.

Tbh, if they are starting to use their experimental stuff, they must be running out of ideas.

It's more likely the Americans will go to war over this than hundreds of dead kids.

Once again they are using anything they have in the warehouse. Why do you think they are shipping all of their tanks from the east over into Belarus now. Because they've wasted all of their other stuff.

They'll run out of soldiers shortly and mobilisation will be the only option there. They've probably a week left until that trigger has to be pulled.

Yeah, it is total nonsense. Germany has accepted its current borders and there are now barely any Germans left in what was east Prussia. What happened in 1945 shouldn't be a template for the future of borders in eastern Europe unless we want total chaos. We need countries to respect the current borders and their neighbours sovereignty and not to undermine it further.

Didn't stop ye in the past 😋

I agree, Kaliningrad territory should not be made German again.

The long term aim of the EU should be to incorporate the territory into the EU. Economic sanctions on Russia will ensure the impoverishment of all of Russia, including Kaliningrad. Meanwhile, all around them EU states will be much better developed and wealthier. They might eventually decide to cast their lot with a progressive, forward looking, free and democratic entity rather than a failing empire.

Ze Germans talk a good game, but the reality is they need Russian gas more than they want to meet their public promises to Ukraine. Europe is great at P.R.