"Nice Guys"

Generally, it's the ones who blame women who are defined as such. Especially when women are talking about them.

It's probably worth making a distinction between an incel and a member of the incel movement. The former being a bit unfortunate, the latter being on a watchlist

@Ray Palmer Bar work or indeed any kind of hospitality work is brilliant for observational purposes on human nature all right isn't it? It's almost like an invisibility cloak.

For sure there's a mating ritual /chat up of sorts that's gone on since the dawn of time. The method has changed but the objective of fancying someone and checking to see if they fancy you back will always remain unchanged. But I only ever saw any strategies as an icebreaker or an intro rather than any long term relationship formula or strategy to follow. While there was PUA knocking around in the 90's, 00's when I would have been on the dating scene, it was pretty rare. I only ever encountered it once and didn't know it existed until after the fact. And having encountered it once, I'd do a literal runner if I encountered again. It's a strategy that's almost single use really. It may work once or twice at most on a woman, and only if she'd never heard of PUA/incel tactics in the first place. Or she knows full well and is equally playing a fake game of her own.

The anger is unsettling and well, if they are displaying that before they even get a first date, it's hardly indicative of a potentially successful relationship. But I suppose those men don't see any point in keeping up the pretence after the knock back - which goes to show, their niceness was only ever superficial and performative to begin with.

Always the charmer Ray

🤣

I treat my friends the same. If a guy is a 5 going for a 10 i would give him the odds. I gave her a honest opinion and warning both were correct. Rather be perceptive than charming.

Of course it can. Have you never gone out with someone who, at the start (before you really knew them) you thought they were great, but as time progressed you learned more about them and broke up, swearing never to get mixed up with someone similar again. Instead of "strike while the iron is hot" it might be more like "get in there early and get her invested before she figures out how much of a weirdo you are" 😉

That's the extreme. Even before considering the compartmentalization of people by others. That is what this "friendzone" is. This "compartmentalization" can also happen due to other factors besides from the "unrequited love" cliche mentioned in other posts above. You might meet a nice fella or girl who is in a relationship. So nothing is ever on the table. You become friends. Had you both been single the first time you met then you might have hooked up. At that stage, would you not agree, that having been friends for maybe a few years, that it would be less likely that either one of the party would want to hook up with the other?

Yeah, but Ray, when she asked you whether you thought she had a good chance with the fella you could have said "yeah, sure, I definitely think you would. Go for it" rather than explaining "well given he has extremely low standards you might actually be in with a chance for once ya munter" 🤣

I genuinely have absolutely no idea where you got any of that from, or what pm even means. Either you're babbling and genuinely can't see how what you're saying is off the wall, or you're making a poor attempt to troll. Regardless, it's ridiculous and childish and completely proves my point, so for the sake of the mods and other posters, I'll no longer be engaging with whatever it is you're trying to do here.

I would disagree it's due to the similarity. The incel movement is actually on a watchlist and being supervised, at least by US national security. There was only recently a short documentary about the amount of cover they needed to infiltrate the group.

I do agree it's more like feminism (although I've no idea if there are similar security measures there). It started off well enough, but it got taken over by extremists and whilst someone may be an Incel based on the strictest definition of the word, they may not actually be part of that group or want to identify as one. I would say though that Incels (i.e. the people who do identify as such) are the extreme fringe.

It WILL decrease them. For a start, the guy now can decide to move on.

Just clarify one thing for me: you are aware of the fact that a guy and a girl, both heterosexual, can actually have a platonic friendship without sex?

I'm no detective but I'd say that poster was picking up on the dig you made towards them, rather than the rest of the post. They're correct about the strangeness of your posts towards them. Do you personally know that poster?

I do feel sorry for other men that don't seem to be able to find companionship in whatever form, for whatever reason. I have been in a position before where some drunken guy was going off on a girl at a pub because he had been following her around the place, giving her compliments when she was clearly uncomfortable. It was a small enough pub and he was being loud anyway, but she must have told him to back off when he started roaring about how he's been nothing but nice to her all evening. Myself and another fella, as well as the bar manager got him out the door and a few words about calling the Gardai settled him down so he left. So whilst I do feel sorry for them, I feel more sorry for the women on the receiving end of so-called nice guys.

As a man, it seems a clear enough distinction between what makes a genuinely nice person and what makes an arse in nice clothing, but I guess by this thread it's not so clear for everyone.