"Nice Guys"

Everyone has choices. So it's up to you to make the best choice for you.

If you want the fella who brings you flowers, then choose the fella who does that. If you want the fella who is more interesting because he goes to the same pub every week and gets pis$ed with his 5-a-side mates and tries to chat up any bit of skirt that comes into the place then do that.

If you choose the flower fella then don't be moaning later on that he never goes anywhere on his own or is boring. If you pick the pub fella then don't be moaning that he doesn't bring you flowers or won't give it a miss one week to go to your family event.

The friend zone is a genuine thing. You can't be friends with someone with a realistic expectation that it will suddenly blossom into a relationship later. You might have a chance when you meet someone at the start but once you leave it too long, your opportunity is gone. Have you yourself ever gone "ya know what, I know I've known Jimmy for 5 years but I've just realised I'd like to ride him". I'd doubt it, but if Patrick brought his mate Jimmy out on a night out with your group you might be interested in him!

The girl who says she's never friendzoned a fella is the girl who has rode all the lads she fancied already.

You hang around with weird people. So fellas who are your friends come up to you and complain that you won't ride them and clearly intimating that they expect sex? How long do you know these fellas before they broach the topic with you? 1 year? 5 years? What type of a weirdo complains about being "friendzoned" to the person who "friendzoned" them.

Why are you friends with weirdos in the first place?

Your quote:

So now they didn't complain to you. So either you are imagining it or else relying on second hand information? Wishful thinking perhaps?

Regardless, what kind of weirdos complain about a specific instance of "friendzoning"? The point still holds.

You can assume what you like. You can even assume that I'm just upset because I know I would be forever rejected by yourself, a goddess incarnate. Whatever makes you happy. I don't give a sh1t

@Princess Consuela Bananahammock you left out one:

• girl rejects, they don't see each other again.
• Girl rejects, the stay as friends (this isn't friendzone, this is just being friends).
• Girl rejects, guy hangs around hoping she'll change her mind at some point (in which case he's the one putting himself in that position, not her).
• Neither makes the final move or commitment to will/won't happen because it's mutually beneficial in some regards

I say this, because I was number 4. Women have a lot of power over men if they know the man is interested. I'm not holding it against her, I'm holding myself to blame also, but we were both benefitting from a couple-like experience, the good bits at least (meals out, nights out, holidays, etc) as friends. And I don't think it held me back with attracting other women, as I don't seem to be very good at that anyway.

My eyes were opened well after we parted ways due to life. She was using me to fill the gap of the nice guy (and the proper nice one, not this weird one people on here are creating, that guy sounds like a predator pretending to be nice) she was missing in-between her bad-boy relationships. I was using her to fill the gap of literally any female who had an interest in me. We got so close to something happening so many times, I can't say who was right or wrong. I was hoping it would lead somewhere, no idea if she was but her actions (looking back) were not those of someone who had no interest. I believe was I blessed with the stereotypical good looking male traits, it would have happened.

I've no hatred or ill will towards women, I've just realised who I am and what I like, and that the liklihood of finding a female who not only ticks my boxes, but whose boxes I also tick (durty), is extremely slim, so I'm just not bothering anymore. If it happens, it'll happen. I'm not going waste hope on it happening, it hurts too much when it doesn't. And that hurt isn't just rejection from a potential mate, it's a reminder of everything that's gone wrong, and I'd rather avoid that than have to deal with it again. As is my choice. Which is affecting literally no one else. But the friendzone definitely exists. Just seems some men are too alpha for it.

Was speaking to a long term friend about this subject. It was a bit of an eye opener. Genuinely thought I had a very normal experience and the whole trying to be friends to get with someone was odd. He pointed out that I just never had any trouble talking to anybody and was always outgoing. Told me numerous stories of our past I forgot but they al basically boiled down to me seeing somebody I fancied in a bar/club and I just would walk straight over to be shot down or be successful. Didn't bother me if I was shot down as I just met them. It also clarified a lot of trouble I would get into when out.

Certain guys get very offended if you talk to their actual girlfriends which is fair enough but that was normally just a general backing off and acceptance I couldn't know and meant no offense. The ones that did always strike me as strange were the male friends who were really aggressive towards me. It seems these were guys doing the whole friend thing hoping to hook up at some point. My mate said that was why one particular guy was always picking fights with me because I had copped off with a few girls he was friends with. Glad he never found out about me and his sister.

College was a bit weird. Now I am not going to go on about Dubliner versus a Culchie but when I was in college the majority of people from the countryside were somewhat limited in their experiences. Was out with some guys from my class in a night club and they were wondering when the slow set was going to come on so they could ask a girl to dance. Guys talking about their social circle at home which often meant there were only maybe 20 people their own age so everybody sort of went around the group. To me that was shocking as within 3 km of my house there were 4 girls schools of over 600 students each. So the odds were in my favour growing up. Either way the restrictions of a small peer population meant a lot of people were not very sophisticated or experienced dealing with the opposite sex or whomever they were attracted to.

I ended up dealing with a lot of 1st year students from multiple colleges in Dublin. Lots of people who struggled to live away from home were really just unable to deal with the social changes. They may have been the best looking person in their area and had all the friends but they would arrive in Dublin and then be generally ignored and/or seen as arrogant. A lot of guys seem to think people will be impressed they were on the GAA team.

There were also the people who completely changed their appearance and interests. I remember this one girl who arrived in college big into Grunge. Little plump, short and wore baggy clothes. Within about 4 months she was big into house music and taking E. She started wearing tight fitting club gear that did her no favours along with tons of make-up. She was just a sheep that followed whomever was a about her. I felt really bad for her because the other girls were pretty good looking and she was the ugly tag along who would just agree with the group. We all have seen this dynamic and the matching male group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1WuwAWHNqU

Not sure what you mean by that first sentence, but the poster just said 5/10 - not 5/10 looking. But even 5/10 looks can be rectified with a bit of advice and time. And even then, a 5/10 looking guy with chraisma and good social skills will still do reasonably well on the dating scene.

Good looks is like a good CV - it'll get your foot in the door, but that's all.

Well you were indeed being used. Because she was the one in control. It was your own choice though to stay in that situation and I assume you learned from it and wouldn't let it happen again. It is easy saying that now. She was entitled to do what she did in terms of stringing you along and taking advantage of you even though it wasn't a very nice thing to do. You may not have realised it at the time, but she might even have been putting in subtle barriers to control and prevent you from trying to change the dynamic to the one she knew you actually wanted.

The thing is that that girl could probably be now online diminishing you as a "nice guy" (in inverted commas) just to justify it to themselves that you weren't a decent fella and were instead some sort of sad pseudo-stalker sap.

There was a male friend of mine who was just gorgeous. As a heterosexual male I am quite comfortable in saying how good looking he was. Tall, curly blond hair well built and highly intelligent. He was very well read and knew tons of interesting stuff. Girls threw themselves at him regularly everywhere. People would turn and look at him when he was going down the street. He wasn't vain and was actually very nice in his intent.

He unfortunately was very clingy. He would call in everyday to my home shortly after we became friends and I had to tell him not to call everyday or maybe arrange when to meet. He took massive offense and I didn't seem him for a bit but slowly he understood I had other friends and I hung out with different people when doing different things and it was not a slight on him.

Lots of stories about him but basically we would go out with friends and we used him as bate to get the most attractive women over. After talking to him a short time they were not interested in him and would be willing to look at some of us in the group. He did cop off lots but he would then start thinking he was in some long term relationship. He would do this about once a month. You would have to listen to his sob story about how mean they were to him. They actually were mean to him to get away from him because he could understand he was smothering them. Eventually did the same myself by completely ghosting him and not answering the door when he called

I can assure you he did this to everyone who became his friend. One of my female friends saw him and went crazy about how good looking he was. I warned her he was nuts but told her he isn't bothered by looks so she had a good chance with him but I advised against it. Anyway after 2 weeks of seeing him (everyday) she was heading home from college on a Friday. She was woken up by him serving her breakfast in bed Saturday morning. She hadn't invited him down nor had he asked. Her mother thought it was a romantic gesture so let him do it. She completely freaked out, he got the train back to Dublin and he wrote her daily letters for a week to say sorry which he hand delivered.

Some normal lads, for whatever reason, aren’t “getting it”, it happens. But these guys wouldn’t be considered Incels.

Incels hate women, although a lot will deny that. They are angry misogynist, a lot of the time bigoted, lads who blame women for all that’s wrong in their sad, little, lives.

It’s like with the Neckbeards, not all lads who play computer games and have hair on their necks would be considered Neckbeards. As the old saying goes ‘it’s not the size of the fedora, it’s how you tip it’.

When a normal lad isn’t having much luck, with getting laid, they look at themselves and see if there’s anything they should be doing differently. An Incel will just get angry and lash out, online, at women and the other normal lads who are “successful” with them.