You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

Thanks all.

Pretty much exactly what I expected to see. Both in the content and where it originated from. Right down to the apologist for Putin's actions, like Tucker himself wrote it. The Charlie Kelly meme was funny, well it would have been if it wasn't the case that what I said is literally being laid out in both right and left media right now.

Was pleasantly surprised at one poster who as they said, we have argued on various threads, but they can see there is truth in what I've posted.

You don't know what a manifesto is do you? And one thread of this nature after years of 'the Left', 'the Left', 'the Left' stuff on here and I'm the one who as too much time on their hands? Interesting.

There is little centrist about capitalism, at least the version of it we have been observing in recent years. Wasn't it Einstein who is supposed to have said something about doing the same thing and expecting different results. What was that phrase again? And I would say the same about the positions on dealing with lots of societal issues in the US being more police, more prisons and harsher sentences. The US has little over 4% of the worlds population, and 20% of its population of prisoners. What is more of the same going to fix? And I should add, to preempt my words being misconstrued, not now or ever, have I said that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

Elsewhere in your post, you also mentioned how vague the positives of multiculturalism are, that is partially why I don't hang around that thread. I've posted a number of times detailed benefits to multiculturalism (I think I laid out about ten in one particular post) and repeatedly, these are ignored and when I drop in to the thread again, I see posts like 'no one can mention any benefits to multiculturalism', that thread has long passed being a debate, or even a discussion, it is 'safe space' for people to complain about the movement of people between countries when they are of different backgrounds.

Also, I never suggested that people on the right shouldn't have the opportunity to voice/argue their own concerns, again, they are your words, not mine. What I said was that what they have been highlighting as being things to be most concerned about, have mostly not played out to be the case.

And as for the stopping talking about domestic abuse against men, again, I never even hinted that that should be done. In fact, what I've frequently bemoaned is the qty of threads that are started by someone complaining about others advocating for something instead of calling for support and meaningful action on something that negatively impacts them or people they care about.

This isn't shutting down discussion, this is saying the majority of discussions about threats facing society should be on where the real threats are originating from, and not about topics that distract from and in many cases, completely brush over those threats or downplay their significance.

I don't necessarily disagree with the Horseshoe theory, well, I'm not sure if what many people think of as far left actually qualifies as such but rather that it was an ideology that was hijacked by a dictator who certainly has little differences between them and their 'peers' on the right. But that's a discussion for a different thread and maybe going by George Orwell's work, it's inevitable that such a trait will emerge and so has to be factored in to the ideology. But I would say though that I didn't refer to 'Far' anything in my post. That's your input. I'm sure there are some who fall in to that category, both central players in todays discussion, and some on here. But most definitely not everyone is all the way out there. But what I am referring to in the OP is the dangers that have still emerged because of the support and input from many on the right, even if not at the extreme. And if they are not great in number, which I am still willing to believe could be the case, they are in impact, and that is the problem.

Did also want to comment on your summation that my view is 'respect your betters', again, they are your words, not mine. We were led to believe that people on the right are big proponents of the 'facts over feelings' approach, surely then they should be arguing in favour of listening to those educated, experienced and active in a field rather than just some of the cuff opinion. No?

This one made me lol. More use of buzzwords without understanding what they mean.

Given that I read the GB News thread and am aware of who contributed most often to it, and that the chief backer of that station was named in the UK Parliament last week as being an agent of Russia, the fact that the original face of the station not only ignored the obvious evidence of much of what I've said but targeted someone who was reporting on it in order to undermine her, and the current face of the station is actively pushing a pro-Putin narrative, this is the post that surprised me the least. Congratulations.

I believe this, 100%.

Don't dispute that there is right or wrong on all sides, but I don't see any argument refuting the point I made in the OP that the most cataclysmic events most of us have experienced have come about because of the actions of those who are comfortable with a right side ideology. To try to suggest 'both sides are at it' is to ignore the reality firstly of the fact that the consequences of the actions of one group are significantly more detrimental than that of the other. And secondly, that much of what is highlighted as being the motivations of the Left has been a strawman of sorts (with a grain of truth, certainly) about the Lefts intentions that has been used to enrage people in opposition to this strawman and this is not good for our societies.

I would also say that the appeal to recognize the evils on all sides makes me raise an eyebrow significantly when reading it, and many of those who thanked the post given their role in perpetuating the narrative in this space that the ideals of the left (as they identified them) have motivated so much of their content over recent years. As I pointed out, there has been an overwhelming narrative on here that the issues of the left are the more problematic ones and that is not the case. It reminds me of the actions in the US congress when one side called for bipartisan initiatives in an attempt to shut down investigations in to the actions that led to the capitol being stormed. The democrats have been too forgiving in not holding their opposition to account and this has emboldened significant players within the GOP that would have their leaders of yesteryear rolling over in their graves.

And its not just the US, in the UK yesterday, Michael Gove tried to play the partisan card and while this is politics, and that is what is often the way of things, he is trying to sweep under the rug the massive influence that russian players have had and continue to have in UK politics and the real world impact of their abysmal response with respect to accepting refugees. The Conservatives are in power for over ten years in the UK, they should have to own the society which now exists in that country and to allow them play the 'there's bad people on both sides' type thing is dangerous. That is the point. We have the evidence of that.

And I am concerned about this, aside from the ongoing active issues, but because of the issues that are likely going to face us as a global population more and more going forward. I believe that the topic of sustainability (both in terms of resources and impact on the climate) is going to be one of the biggest issues that is going to motivate conflict and strife as we go forward. And many of the same players who have been found to have behaved, and continued to behave shamefully, within the Right/Left. Woke/'Calling it as I see it' are already using the same tactics that they have used for various reasons to paint the left as the bogeyman to do the same once again with respect to Climate scientists and people who advocate restraint.

We can't ignore this issue like other issues have been ignored, the consequence of that is likely to be much more significant and impactful. Your final sentence is the point I was making with respect to Russia. Not just the US, but UK politics also. And the fact that this has happened is why I started this thread. I believe Brexit came about as a consequence of this and when one journalist in particular painted a very clear picture of the Russian influence in the Brexit space (and beyond) she was ridiculed and sidelined including publicly by the chief political correspondent of the BBC at that time who went on to launch a station that was specifically launched with the agenda of being 'non-woke' and was backed by a supposed Russian agent. That is why we are in this mess, because these things have happened, but people choose to turn a blind eye to them and instead get angry because someone wanted to be referred to as he/him or whatever.

Brilliant. Gave me a laugh.

Your earlier reference to Breitbart and so on is part of the problem, too many people shrug their shoulders and say 'sure they're all at it,' because they haven't stopped long enough to analyze the arguments.

I am on the record on here for saying I don't broadly agree with biological males competing with females because I believe the gains from having lived a significant amount of time as a man can simply not be removed despite hormonal treatment. And I am basing that on the output of scientists such as Ross Tucker of World Rugby. At least I'm consistent in that respect.

But I also don't think it is as big an issue as it was made out to be an I am very skeptical of the 'won't someone think of the poor girls they are competing against' when on so many other topics they refuse to show any inclination towards thinking about things from the perspective of females.