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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

  • 13-03-2022 5:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭


    There are no shortage of real world negative if not outright disastrous and terrifying ongoing situations that demand our attention right now, and it feels like this has been the case for at least a few years, if not all the way back to the financial crash in 08.

    The situation in Ukraine, the ongoing Covid pandemic situation, the impact of Brexit are all very significant events which if they were being dealt with on their own would still be a memorable time in ones life, moreso depending on your proximity to them obviously. Having them all happen at the same time has been like some sort of nightmare that keeps getting worse.

    Over the last 5-10 years, we've seen a growing conversation, including to a very significant level on here, suggesting that the things to be concerned about in the world have been liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on. These have all been lumped together as 'woke/progressive/liberal/leftist/socialist/communist' agendas' that must be stopped or at least we should be wary of.

    And yet, none of the significant life events that we are experiencing and suffering through are the cause of these topics that have fueled huge amounts of conversation as being something we need to be guarded against. And I don't think this is an accident. I believe that many of the influential people who have tried to focus peoples concern towards 'woke/liberal/progressive' topics have inflamed these mostly 'false flag' topics to both distract from what they themselves have been doing or what others that they agree with, have been doing and to paint anything that can be considered as progressive to be viewed warily as something to be concerned about and on guard against.

    Russia is a central player in the whole conversation and not just because of what they are doing in Ukraine. The links between Russian operatives and key people in the UK (more of which is emerging hour by hour right now), in Europe, in the US and how those people have been involved in events in their own countries. The influence from prominent media platforms in the UK and USA for Russian positions. The admiration from influential conservative mouthpieces for Russia and Putin being very much non-woke and these people trying to promote the same ideals elsewhere. Many online bot and malware initiatives which emerge out of Russia. All these points are just some of the things that have influenced how we have experienced things such as US elections, the whole Brexit conversation, the Covid pandemic and the situation in Ukraine since 2014 and particularly now.

    The promoting of uber-nationalism, minimal regulation at a corporate level with increased regulation at a personal level, media and free speech control and the downplaying of educated and experienced voices on various topics has shown to be a dangerous path to go down, and that is the path we are on in some instances and attempts to put us on it in more. The ongoing demonisation of any sort of progressive or compassionate ideal is a deliberate act to motivate people to align with a predominantly right wing view so that when people talk about some of the more serious things that are going on within that right wing, it is dismissed as just a liberal/woke narrative and those who got riled up about gender neutral bathrooms or whatever just fall in to line and dismiss the serious claims that need attention.

    Some people tried to highlight where the real dangers were and have suffered greatly for doing so in having been targeted directly by the people they were warning about or their friends in the media and an army of largely anonymous, but often not, profiles online. And hundreds of millions are suffering from the impact that these manipulators have had on our societies. It's way past time for people to stop and think about who exactly has been encouraging people to fight on comparatively non-impactful topics while they themselves affect the world in very negative ways.

    threadbans (from 8/12/22 - earlier ones remain in place whether listed here or not)

    xxxxxxl

    Tony EH

    Cognitive Dissident

    MagicJohn

    SafeSurfer

    nullzero

    Overheal

    Tell me how

    Post edited by Beasty on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    I'm shocked...

    ...that you forgot to mention Sir Trump in your rant.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Iknow we've bashed off each other in threads before OP but i dont think you're wrong here tbh (and I'm sorry I was a dick to debate previously)



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,650 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on.

    the downplaying of educated and experienced voices on various topics


    Essentially the whole thing can be summed up as “respect your betters” 😏

    Well, you could have just said that instead of trying to demonise anyone who doesn’t share your opinions on many topics as being hoodwinked by idiots who are the equivalent of your political opposites to exactly the same degree -


    In political science and popular discourse, the horseshoe theory asserts that the far-left and the far-right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, closely resemble one another, analogous to the way that the opposite ends of a horseshoe are close together.



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,755 ✭✭✭✭Hello 2D Person Below


    Very well said, OP.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Postmillennialism is an end-times view that focuses on the progressive victory and expansive influence of Christianity. It believes that we are currently living in the “Millennium” and that, during this indefinitely long period of time, Christians are tasked to extend the Kingdom of God in the world through the preaching of the gospel and the saving work of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of individuals. Dr. Michelle Reyes


    Most of these intellectuals, of whatever strand or occupation, were either dedicated, messianic postmillennial pietists or else former pietists, born in a deeply pietist home, who, though now secularized, still possessed an intense messianic belief in national and world salvation through Big Government. But, in addition, oddly but characteristically, most combined in their thought and agitation messianic moral or religious fervor with an empirical, allegedly “value-free,” and strictly “scientific” devotion to social science. Whether it be the medical profession’s combined scientific and moralistic devotion to stamping out sin or a similar position among economists or philosophers, this blend is typical of progressive intellectuals.

    source (page 399)

    This whole left/right paradigm is nonsense. The pietistic-progressive movement that coalesced in the United States during the 19th century and dominated the 20th century has reached its apogee in the 21st century.  It is the neo-conservatives who are at home in both American political parties, who have pushed the United States into disastrous wars in the Middle East to spread liberal democracy, are the heirs of the simplistic thinking of those who once dreamed of turning government into a representative of God’s will on earth. It is also the ideology behind Samantha Powers responsibility to protect (R2P) that bought down Libya with secretary of state Mrs. Clinton and US president Obama in power.

    The current conflict in Ukraine is caused by politicians who have not stuck to the terms of Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (1994) and instead of disbanding NATO having served its cold war function, pushed it into middle East wars and edged closer to Russian borders in the late 90s. It is the April 2008 NATO Bucharest declaration that opened the way for the accession of Georgia and Ukraine that finally triggered the Russians to put their foot down which they did in Georgia in August 2008. There is a lot more going on leading to the events of 2012-2014 in Ukraine that is probably covered in the other thread and I'm not writing a history lesson. I believe had politicians actually stuck to their agreements made after the collapse of the Soviet Union that we would not be involved in this war I am quite content with a policy of Finlandisation as regards Ukraine.

    What has surprised me so far is the lack of a peacemaker in this conflict, I had expected President Macron of France to take the initiative and stop this before it started, the inclusion and gaffs of US vice-president Harris indicate the Americans were not serious about stopping this and just convinced me that they had already taken the decision to let it happen having known Putins intentions since October 2021. Now everyone has dug their heels in this conflict will probably drag for the next 2 years dragging more people in more countries in and ultimately will result in defeat for Ukraine. Remember the Finns fought successfully for a while, they were ultimately defeated, what saved them was the Russians wanted a neutral buffer between them and Sweden (historical battle in Poltava, in todays Ukraine)

    There is another factor to consider, that of Klaus Schwab and his great reset that practically all Western leaders have bought into ("build back better") or more realistically Communism 2.0, the return of command and control under the auspices of the Green new deal. Part of its aims were to try and exercise control over Russia and China through the Carbon market, not going to happen - President Putin of Russia pressed his own reset button.

    Getting back to the progressives, they have been the dominant ideology in Western countries in the aftermath of World war II. It is the arrogance of the American hegemon and those that pull its strings with the expansion of their manifest destiny that has now reached its limits, both China and Russia strongly object to American encroachment, however, have been quite happy to engage in global trade which is probably the major factor that has kept world peace for so long. When you start cutting off trade on both sides, you are wiping out the global economy and once you have undermined this, you have removed the benefits and then it really does expand the war.

    The reality is that all Western governments and many large corporations have massive debt loads, with ageing populations and huge welfare dependency both public and corporate (offense industry, education are wholly government entities). The reset for this debt load was coming anyway events have moved it along, the current crop of politicians are the most stupid I've seen in a long time and as a consequence we are now caught in a war economy and must navigate a world of civil unrest, shortages of food, energy and other goods , high unemployment, and rampant inflation (25%+).

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Hitler and the Nazis rose long before modern media and the internet.

    Is progress a myth?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    OP you are far left, everyone is right of you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The situation in Ukraine, the ongoing Covid pandemic situation, the impact of Brexit are all very significant events which if they were being dealt with on their own would still be a memorable time in ones life, moreso depending on your proximity to them obviously. Having them all happen at the same time has been like some sort of nightmare that keeps getting worse.

    And for my parents it was the open discrimination against married women, corruption within the political parties, the Vietnam war, the Cuban missile crisis, etc etc etc. For my grandparents, it would have been the 1916 rising, the civil war, the politics of Church and State, WW2, the Cold war, etc.

    You're trying to make this out as if we're experiencing something much worse than other generational groupings. It's not. Every generation faces challenges both personal and cultural/national.

    Over the last 5-10 years, we've seen a growing conversation, including to a very significant level on here, suggesting that the things to be concerned about in the world have been liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on. These have all been lumped together as 'woke/progressive/liberal/leftist/socialist/communist' agendas' that must be stopped or at least we should be wary of.

    We're simply seeing a reaction to the lack of resistance put forwards against a variety of social/cultural movements which gained steam under valid considerations, but have gone far beyond what they were originally intended to be. Many of these movements have been implemented under short-sighted feel-good sensations, rather than expecting/considering the possible negative aspects that come about from them being embraced on so many levels.

    The thread on multiculturalism has shown just how vague the positives are, and how obvious the negatives are... and while there are posters with extreme views, there has been a decided lack of serious argument to show how great multiculturalism has turned out in the European countries that embraced the concept, and have since moved against their past policies.

    TBH OP, I see that paragraph I quoted above to be simply a list of discussions you've been involved in, and failed to argue effectively for/against. You've jumped into the multiculturalism thread a few times, met opposition, and disappeared when your arguments failed to trump the counter arguments.

    As for the lumping of issues, that's just the internet and the effect of the US culture/perception of two sides on all issues... which we can see in many posters these days, focusing on good/bad black/white, and little appreciation or tolerance for everything that goes in-between.

    And yet, none of the significant life events that we are experiencing and suffering through are the cause of these topics that have fueled huge amounts of conversation as being something we need to be guarded against. And I don't think this is an accident.

    Except that in many of those threads, posters have referred to how they've been affected, and invariably, their views are dismissed as being irrelevant. Or simply ignored. And you're right... I don't think that's an accident.

     It's way past time for people to stop and think about who exactly has been encouraging people to fight on comparatively non-impactful topics while they themselves affect the world in very negative ways.

    I do find it ironic that you complain about the people who have been sidelined, ignored, or attacked over issues that concern them, but feel that others shouldn't be given the spotlight to voice/argue their own concerns. So, who gets to decide which topics are valid and of worth? Should we stop talking about domestic abuse towards men because it doesn't fit with your views of what's important? What about the creation of a new socio-economic poor/disadvantaged class because the policies in place towards immigration have not considered how to effectively house, educate, employ, or integrate foreign groups? Surely, these are issues worth discussing?

    Nah. I don't buy it. This is just more of the same attitude of shutting down discussions that you don't agree with, or find irrelevant to your worldview, while elevating those who do champion the same causes you like.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    A sublime outpouring of bigoted egotism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,218 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Russia certainly support the radical right. Undermine the status quo

    They also support the radical and woke left, undermine society, undermine social cohesion, undermine national solidarity.


    You are in the same camp and the majority view ye as one.


    I've seen a lot of radical left posters on social media decree the nationalist impulse driving the Ukrainian forces.

    It's a firm Nyet from me to your world view and those influencing you and funding it. Same answer as ye have heard for decades no pasaran.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭arthursway


    I too am very disappointed Trump didn't get a mention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    So you can diagnose the problem but do you have the answer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Also what I like about this and similar is,...everyone else is marching to the right or the left (depending on the poster) except for the poster, the poster can see what's really going on, everyone else is on the road to perdition and the poster is a lone voice who will be proved correct in time, will this happen before the great collapse? plus every politician is always a clown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    There is a bad stench of incel off most on the right



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What a dangerously simplistic narrative.

    There have been Communist dictators and far-right dictators; there can be bad on both sides. What's repellent is extremism and a religious adherence to a view when you have no evidence; when you are a psychopath who cares little for human life; and a belief to force that view onto others.

    That comes from both sides of the spectrum.

    Your focus on 'the Right' means you are yourself targeting a group of people who are largely decent and normal people; ordinary Conservatives; and you're lumping them in with Vladimir Putin as a means to tarnish right-wing politics.

    That would be as stupid as me suggesting that all left-wing people are in the same ring as Mao Zedong or Joe Stalin.

    Extremism itself is the problem, as I outlined above, and not your simplistic and ironic interpretation to blame "the Other" for societies ills.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Seeing as anything considered slightly right of far-left is considered far-right these days, I take what you are saying with a grain of salt.

    The way forward is centrist politics based on capitalism and common sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭rogber


    You have too much time on your hands. Find a more productive hobby, you'll be glad looking back. Either that, or get actively involved in politics if you care that much. But posting manifestos on boards? Really?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Thanks all.

    Pretty much exactly what I expected to see. Both in the content and where it originated from. Right down to the apologist for Putin's actions, like Tucker himself wrote it. The Charlie Kelly meme was funny, well it would have been if it wasn't the case that what I said is literally being laid out in both right and left media right now.

    Was pleasantly surprised at one poster who as they said, we have argued on various threads, but they can see there is truth in what I've posted.

    You don't know what a manifesto is do you? And one thread of this nature after years of 'the Left', 'the Left', 'the Left' stuff on here and I'm the one who as too much time on their hands? Interesting.

    There is little centrist about capitalism, at least the version of it we have been observing in recent years. Wasn't it Einstein who is supposed to have said something about doing the same thing and expecting different results. What was that phrase again? And I would say the same about the positions on dealing with lots of societal issues in the US being more police, more prisons and harsher sentences. The US has little over 4% of the worlds population, and 20% of its population of prisoners. What is more of the same going to fix? And I should add, to preempt my words being misconstrued, not now or ever, have I said that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.


    TBH OP, I see that paragraph I quoted above to be simply a list of discussions you've been involved in, and failed to argue effectively for/against. You've jumped into the multiculturalism thread a few times, met opposition, and disappeared when your arguments failed to trump the counter arguments.

    Elsewhere in your post, you also mentioned how vague the positives of multiculturalism are, that is partially why I don't hang around that thread. I've posted a number of times detailed benefits to multiculturalism (I think I laid out about ten in one particular post) and repeatedly, these are ignored and when I drop in to the thread again, I see posts like 'no one can mention any benefits to multiculturalism', that thread has long passed being a debate, or even a discussion, it is 'safe space' for people to complain about the movement of people between countries when they are of different backgrounds.

    Also, I never suggested that people on the right shouldn't have the opportunity to voice/argue their own concerns, again, they are your words, not mine. What I said was that what they have been highlighting as being things to be most concerned about, have mostly not played out to be the case.

    And as for the stopping talking about domestic abuse against men, again, I never even hinted that that should be done. In fact, what I've frequently bemoaned is the qty of threads that are started by someone complaining about others advocating for something instead of calling for support and meaningful action on something that negatively impacts them or people they care about.

    This isn't shutting down discussion, this is saying the majority of discussions about threats facing society should be on where the real threats are originating from, and not about topics that distract from and in many cases, completely brush over those threats or downplay their significance.

    I don't necessarily disagree with the Horseshoe theory, well, I'm not sure if what many people think of as far left actually qualifies as such but rather that it was an ideology that was hijacked by a dictator who certainly has little differences between them and their 'peers' on the right. But that's a discussion for a different thread and maybe going by George Orwell's work, it's inevitable that such a trait will emerge and so has to be factored in to the ideology. But I would say though that I didn't refer to 'Far' anything in my post. That's your input. I'm sure there are some who fall in to that category, both central players in todays discussion, and some on here. But most definitely not everyone is all the way out there. But what I am referring to in the OP is the dangers that have still emerged because of the support and input from many on the right, even if not at the extreme. And if they are not great in number, which I am still willing to believe could be the case, they are in impact, and that is the problem.

    Did also want to comment on your summation that my view is 'respect your betters', again, they are your words, not mine. We were led to believe that people on the right are big proponents of the 'facts over feelings' approach, surely then they should be arguing in favour of listening to those educated, experienced and active in a field rather than just some of the cuff opinion. No?

    This one made me lol. More use of buzzwords without understanding what they mean.

    Given that I read the GB News thread and am aware of who contributed most often to it, and that the chief backer of that station was named in the UK Parliament last week as being an agent of Russia, the fact that the original face of the station not only ignored the obvious evidence of much of what I've said but targeted someone who was reporting on it in order to undermine her, and the current face of the station is actively pushing a pro-Putin narrative, this is the post that surprised me the least. Congratulations.

    I believe this, 100%.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭rogber


    I was being polite with manifesto. Others were probably closer to the truth with rant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Average stream of consciousnesses . 4/10. Needs more Trump and BLM. Could do better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    The "right" have been the villains for a long time now. This post makes no sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the right do tend to have a more dichotomous view of the world, but the political left has been atrocious to



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    An interesting read surrounding a right wing conspiracy theory.

    There is another factor to consider, that of Klaus Schwab and his great reset that practically all Western leaders have bought into ("build back better") or more realistically Communism 2.0, the return of command and control under the auspices of the Green new deal. Part of its aims were to try and exercise control over Russia and China through the Carbon market, not going to happen - President Putin of Russia pressed his own reset button.

    Can we talk more about what it is you think klaus Schwab and the WEF are really doing?





  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock




    First it was The Rothschilds. Then George Soros. Now Klaus Schwab.

    I'm sure I'll wake up one day and someone will link Joe Costello to being the latest scapegoat to people's own failures.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    And we on the conservative right would have gotten away with it too if it were not for the OP's revalation of our dasterly schemes!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    The problem as others have said is extremism. This applies to both the left and right.

    There appears to be a trend that people who are left or right leaning have taken to being against the other sides positions at all times. Your either with us or your against us attitude. This seems a bit cultish to me because I have always been a person who leans left in some things and on other hand can see in some things the right have the better ideas.

    I really hope online doesn’t reflect attitudes of younger generations because of how black and white the views are. In my youth I had full blown arguments with some politically minded friends and it never affected the friendships when we disagreed.

    One thing that keeps me coming back to boards is that there are posts I strongly disagree with but I think it’s important to my worldview to read and consider positions I both agree and disagree with.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    They are going after the Census now..



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