Principal Officer competition 2022

tea and coffee · 18-02-2022 9:23am #1

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/index.php?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=150838&campaignId=2213701

Closing date 10th March

TaurenDruid · 18-02-2022 6:16pm

/sub

prettyboy81 · 18-02-2022 7:56pm

New application form & word count for competency answers has been increased.

Ahshurlookit · 18-02-2022 10:37pm

Its gone from word count to character count. You're allowed a maximum of 4,000 characters per competency answer.

AuroraP · 20-02-2022 4:47pm

While I'm not an AP yet, I'll give it a swirl, could be looking at an interview 2 years down the road after all.

cuttingtimber22 · 20-02-2022 5:02pm

What is the attraction of a a PO post in the civil service?

BigElmo · 20-02-2022 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663929#Comment_118663929

What do you think the attraction might be?

cuttingtimber22 · 20-02-2022 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664176#Comment_118664176

Well a friend is a PO and I think it would be hard to sell the job to be honest. Mad hours (prob more than rest of our friend’s group), lots of paperwork, and is under resourced for the work she has to produce while managing a few head cases who don’t want to work with little support from HR.

BigElmo · 20-02-2022 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664236#Comment_118664236

I just started reading the 2019 PO Competition thread, and there is some agreement with you there - major disinterest and apathy towards taking on a PO level role. Out of interest, are the head cases APs or ASecs? 😁

TaurenDruid · 20-02-2022 9:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663929#Comment_118663929

There are €91,609 to €113,000 reasons... especially if you're coming from midway or lower on the APO scale, that's a nice jump in pay.

hardybuck · 22-02-2022 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663929#Comment_118663929

I think it's a fair question.

If you're an AP1 the increase in pay is fairly negligible, particularly when you consider the added responsibility. However it's an obvious stepping stone for those with ambitions of becoming an Assistant Secretary.

There's no doubt that many POs are under significant pressure and working longer hours than they should be. However some people are available to avail of flexible working, or take extended leave - particularly during the summer when there's less political activity. Those types of perks aren't always available in the private sector.

22-02-2022 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664236#Comment_118664236

this sounds about right tbh

hardybuck · 22-02-2022 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663853#Comment_118663853

I hear this a lot but I have mixed feelings about it.

On a fairness level, I've seen some really unsuitable PO candidates who are absolutely brilliant at the application forms and tests. They know they aren't getting PO anytime soon, they aren't interested in getting PO anytime soon, but unfortunately they might knock out a candidate who is genuinely interested.

From a career development perspective, I'd strongly advise an internal candidate to get 3-4 years of good quality AP work under their belt before they make a push for PO. I've seen people get it who aren't ready for it, and it ain't pretty.

AuroraP · 24-02-2022 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671654#Comment_118671654

Indeed you are correct - and its certainly something that happens at all levels of the civil service. I genuinely think sometimes that people are often to get testing and presentation experience outside the JobTestPrep (et al.) environment - in addition to the uncertainty surrounding the panel timelines.

May Day · 05-03-2022 10:51pm

Where can you get the answers to situational judgment? Are the tests still at home.. then repeated in pas? When is your app taken into account? I asked as I have never done this before and was told that the form is not assessed until after the tests before the first interview ??

prettyboy81 · 08-03-2022 10:07pm

First dig at this one, application submitted.

Sammy96 · 09-03-2022 3:33pm

No option to pick county location/preference on this time?

tea and coffee · 10-03-2022 4:13am

The new form is lovely , much easier to fill out.

Trickedout · 10-03-2022 1:59pm

Form submitted - good luck to all who apply

Herriott · 10-03-2022 4:23pm

No, I didn't have that option either.

tea and coffee · 10-03-2022 7:33pm

Gosh this thread is very quiet. Death of Boards? Or noone looking to get promoted/ join CS..?

78Ned · 11-03-2022 8:15am

It is very quiet compared to 2019 PO Board. I think interest is very high within Civil Service. Have heard only 20% applicants are from private sector

Ahshurlookit · 11-03-2022 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118764443#Comment_118764443

Hopefully the latter and they just interview everyone! I think it's because people going for jobs at this level have done so many competitions they don't have any questions about the early stages of the competition. It'll ramp up when people are invited to video interviews.

May Day · 11-03-2022 5:53pm

I wish everyone the best. If anyone is familiar with or has advice on what to expect next I would be grateful

APparently · 11-03-2022 6:33pm

@May Day the next stage will likely be online aptitudes job simulation tests. I would expect the window to do those will be within the next month. The result of those will determine whether you are placed on an Order of Merit or not. They will take maybe the first 150 on the OOM to the next stage which could be interview and case study presentation on the same day or as two different stages. Those successful at all three stages will be placed on a panel and jobs will be offered in order. They may then have to go back to the OOM and call another batch or two forward for interview, depending on the number of PO vacancies.

bluegreenred · 11-03-2022 8:35pm

Thanks AP. That’s a different process from last time. Stage 1 was job simulation but also an aptitude test. Stage 2 a video auto “interview” and stage 3 a interview and presentation combo. Is it definitely different this time?

Sammy96 · 11-03-2022 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118769959#Comment_118769959

All information is in the booklet on what each stage is.

bluegreenred · 11-03-2022 8:44pm

Thanks Sammy. Could u post it on here. I did not download it as didn’t realise I could not access it post application after the closing date.

78Ned · 11-03-2022 10:44pm

Amazed how anyone passes the different stages and gets on the panel

May Day · 12-03-2022 8:50am

Thanks AP. That is so helpful and I appreciate it. I printed the booklet and it was vague as to the settled processes for this comp.. sort of could be one or more of the following.. type thing! I did the ap a few years ago and had to do the apprirude tests at home and then in pas again. I found that unusual. Sort of thought why not just do it supervised in the first place. Any tips on study on the situational one would be great. That was the one I did worst in! Thank you again for the helpful answer.

May Day · 12-03-2022 9:03am

I forgot to ask.. the simulation test for po .. is that the "in tray" exam? And the case study.. any tips on that would be great and I'll start studying! Let's hope we all get through. Most of us are probably already doing po work. It's the hoops to jump through I find strange!

APparently · 14-03-2022 10:32am

I forgot about the video interview stage too. So probably will be:

1. Online assessments (aptitude tests and job simulation- these are Likert Scale questions asking what you would do in certain hypothetical scenarios. There's no studying for these afaik as they never release the correct answers.)

2. Video interview- 3 competencies with 3 mins for each recording yourself on video

3. Interview- hopefully in person this time. Note this is the first time any body will look at your application form

4. Presentation/analysis exercise- you are given a case study and 90 mins to read and prepare a presentation. Then you have 15 mins to present your analysis and answer questions I think. Again, no studying for this one as it seems very subjective to the panel of assessors.

Pre-covid I think stage 3 and 4 were on the same day in PAS offices in Dublin but last year they were two separate stages with the interview first and shortlisting again before the presentation.

May Day · 15-03-2022 11:28am

Well thank you so much. That is extremely helpful. Much appreciated. The very best of luck to is all!

bluegreenred · 17-03-2022 9:59am

Thanks. Last time the process took just over three months but that included Christmas. We should get notified of our first stage next week.

dotski_w_ · 18-03-2022 9:34am

Thanks for that APparently, like others I didn't realize you couldn't go back to the booklet after closing date.

Do you recall also what the position was re the PO1 competition? iirc at some point they take the top applicants and give them an interview for PO1, but I can't recall if it's after the online tests or later.

Appreciate if anyone can advise.

May Day · 18-03-2022 10:07am

I was told anecdotally that there are lots of po vacancies to be filled, so hopefully I'll get a po interview if the top people are put through for po1! I don't know if that is true but just putting it out there xx

May Day · 19-03-2022 9:39am

Does anyone know if they use the maths questions as those for ap? They may change them of course but I am hopeless at maths.. bearly passed ap ones . I have a few books I can study from from 5 years ago. Otherwise will have to rethink it. I'll not pass the maths!

dotski_w_ · 19-03-2022 6:47pm

There is some maths is in there alright (was before anyway). TBH if you find maths very hard, there's a lot of PO jobs you might not enjoy I think, understanding data is a big part of a lot of jobs on the managerial side and also in terms of policy, I'd have used fairly rich data analysis to justify policy reforms, standard of maths required for AP + PO exams a good bit lower IMO.

May Day · 19-03-2022 7:08pm

Thanks. I don't find it too much of a handicap in my current role but I hear you on that. There is always a 'numbers person' about to fact check my interpretation of things.

There are so many rumours about pas grading that I am just assuming they are all weighted equally.

I heard only situational judgment is used in grading. Then I heard job simulation only.. That they are all are weighted equally...then all but maths! Then I heard that pas have a pool of test questions which they reconfigure for each round. I just thought it best not to worry about what I cant know or control re the testing stage and assume nothing.

I sort of hoped the po and ap maths questions were similar as I have resources to work from and some basic handle on it!

Any tips for study websites or books are welcome.

APparently · 19-03-2022 10:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118800689#Comment_118800689

I think it was clearly indicated in the booklet that a separate PO Higher comp will be run later in the year. This is a departure from other PO and AP comps where the first x number on the panel could go forward for the higher competition.

Regarding the maths element @May Day i think the apptitude test is like a series of paragraphs/small case studies and each has 5 or 6 questions. Some of those questions will test your comprehension and some will test your maths/data analysis skills. Then the job simulation will test your judgement.

May Day · 19-03-2022 11:02pm

Will give it my best shot anyway! I was getting diverted by speculation and driving myself nuts! You are all so helpful. Many thanks xx

dotski_w_ · 20-03-2022 10:48am

Hi, I found a copy of the circular (is on my Depts intranet) and it did say there "may" (I would read that as "would", IMO) be a separate PO1 comp, but also said that it would be limited to existing POs "and to all successful candidates from the first round of interviews of this Open Principal Officer (Standard) competition.. any existing CS at a grade below PO (standard).. who wishes to be eligible for the next PO Higher comp should therefore ensure they compete at this Open PO competition"

So while it's a separate competition, it's linked, in that you'll need to enter this one if below PO now.

Not sure what to take from reference to "first round of interviews", does that confirm they're definitely having 2 rounds? I suppose could be just the one, although them they are recruiting those people as POs anyway if they pass the interview, an so would already be eligible, which doesn't make sense to have as a criterion (unless they think there's AP1s who wouldn't accept PO but would take PO1, which would surprise me....)

dotski_w_ · 20-03-2022 11:52am

FWIW I just looked up timeline from the last one in 2019. Might be different (they should be more used to online element, however they might have a different process, given the options in the notice that's at least possible), but anyway, I looked up for my own curiosity, and might as well share...

Closing date for applications was 3 October, dates of online tests (held 4-6 November) were announced on 23 October, results came out on 25th November.

This comp had a closing date of 10 March, so if it ended up the same timeline (no guarantees ofc), that would be ...

30 March - announce dates of online test-

11-13 April- online tests

May bank holiday- results

Good omen for you, May Day? ;)

May Day · 20-03-2022 12:15pm

Thanks. Yes.. will give it my best shot. Getting through the hoops is the tricky bit. I did it before so will do my best with no expectations. Thanks for all the help.