Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Sanctions work over years though not days. It will need all of Europe to stick with them through next winter and possible impose oil and gas sanctions too.

Sorry to sound pessimistic. but unfortunately i don't see a clean way out of this mess.

The russians will not allow themselves to lose in Ukraine, even if they had to bring the whole country to the ground, and they made it perfectly clear that they're willing to go nuclear if they had to.

Eventually the Russians are going to win, they are not playing around, but we are.

knowing the American modus operandi, they'll keep fighting the russians to the last Ukrainian, deal as much blows as they can to the russians then pull out when they think they've done the maximum they can. It's only a question of when, just take a look at Afghanistan.

Americans got absolutely no interest in Ukraine but to poke the russians. they made it clear that they have no intention to send a single soldier to fight for the Ukrainians, nor the EU is willing to go into a nuclear adventure.

Perhaps the Mig-29 shipment the EU/Nato promised to the ukrainians was met with a direct threat from the russians escalating to nuclear strikes on Ukraine thus got abandoned.

what matters to me personally is Europe, europe will pay a hefty price for this war in its economy first and foremost, in the end the americans will pull out and the russians will calm down, the europeans though will be left with refugees, economic difficulties and an angry bear on the eastern front.

Ukrainians will be left without a country.

If i was a european in charge, i'd push a policy for the future set a roadmap that results in the following, kick the americans out of europe, dismantle Nato, increase military spending and invest in own security, intoduce more robust mutual defense clauses in the EU agreement, no point in relying on the americans any longer if all they care about is geopolitical meddling rather than security. have talks with the russians and negotiate a solution for the Ukrainians that is a win win for everyone, while most importantly maintaining peace with the russians. Europe should have its own agenda and work towards it - no outsiders.

we had a chance to avoid all this mess altogether, but proper leadership is absent nowadays, short sight is pretty much the norm.

Right now european leaders are driven by apparent emotions, perhaps to please the masses since some of them got elections coming up and they need to secure their seats.

I'm sorry but emotions and right/wrong do not mix up well with geopolitics, without going down to the delusion that we can uproot a tyrant on top of a superpower, in the end Europe is going to be forced to deal with Putin and come to terms or a nuclear World War 3 and lose everything that was built since the end of the second world war. choose one.

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another huge mistake that we're doing is alienating the russian people, banning them from sports, Paralympics for real like we're punishing them

thus providing more munition for the tyrant to justify his war internally and build up hate in his population that might explode much more dramatically on the long run.

we're at a turning point in history and going forward we need to proceed with absolute caution if life really matters to us.

just my final 2 cents on this matter.

For an economy that is about a third smaller than Italy's, they have hundreds of billions of dollars of assets that have just been frozen, not a paltry amount (France estimates around 1 trillion blocked now, including half the reserve "war-chest"). Internationally Russian assets and the rouble are toxic now, it's value at a record low, their key banks share values have collapsed almost entirely, international credit is frozen to them, most major corporations have stopped doing business with them, the main container shipping groups have cut them off, main airliners have cut them off, they have been forced to keep their stock market closed for a week (it was down 40% last week, an eye-watering amount, I think it's a world record), modern manufacturing is complex requiring international supplies - suppliers are being drastically cut by the day. We'll probably see them go into default on their interest payments, which will make them toxic even to allies in Asia. Even the Kremlin, pathological liars and propagandists, have been forced to admit their economy is taking a battering from this. Keep in mind we're just 9 days in. They'll survive and get by, but yes, over the months their economy is only going to get worse.

Putin wants a Soviet empire, so he'll get a Soviet style economy. Maybe the increasingly poor Russian populace will see Putin in his glittering yacht and one billion holiday home and decide it's time for another Russian revolution..

But the principles of MAD were clearly understood by all, ( and adhered to) and now we have a crazy barsteward who may just might use them. Attacking a big Nuclear Power plant is proof enough of how far he is prepared to go.

Not sure if this has been posted already:-

I dont agree, Putin knows he cant go into a NATO country, well, what I mean is, the reason the West would allow Ukraine to be overrun by Putin is the same reason Putin wont enter NATO. I think this narrative of him having lost the plot entirely is wrong. In hindsight he has been clearly planning this for a very long time.

Its the unwritten rules (or perhaps written???) of what you're allowed or not allowed do. It seems that supplying arms and providing intelligence doesnt break the rules, but direct conflict does. If the West stays out of it I dont believe it'll escalate as it would be basically suicide for Putin to invade because then all bets are off.

Well this ruined my day. No offence to yourself posting it.

im addicted to watching this absolute clusterfuck unfold.

that cvNt needs to be stopped I hope he **** burns in hell.

This thread is depressing the life out of me need to stop reading it but can’t.

watched the power plant unfold on live stream last night. These terrorist need to die quickly.

My heart goes out to Ukraine, europe and the decent Russian people opposing this.

My partner is pregnant and all I can think of is how bad my timing was I can’t even enjoy the excitement as I fear the future too much. **** you putin. **** you very much.

Firstly its fox news and secondly the plant is about as close to Moscow as it is to Warsaw in Poland, they would be hurting themselves just as much if not more by triggering anything.

All currency reserves held for the Russian central bank outside of Russia should be used to help Ukraine.

The bombing of the nuclear plant should have brought missle drops on that group from europe. Waiting and watching happen what you fear most happening is crazy

The Czech Foreign Affairs Minister, what do they consider "decisiveness and unity" I wonder, bear in mind Spain's equivalent has said earlier today that NATO is to discuss possible involvement now

Great start to the weekend….

There are 2 hopes of that happening.