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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It sounds crazy to say at this moment in time, but eventually people will realize that Russia and the EU need to be working together to counter the might of the two real dominant global powers, China and the U.S.

    The US is a waning power, who let their rich offshore their manufacturing base to China, lining their pockets while the American poor grow and their middle gets increasingly squeezed chasing The American Dream(tm) that's a lot harder to chase than it was. In the midst of Covid and this latest horrible distraction, China is looking down the barrel of the largest asset bubble in world history, their economy runs on slim profit margins and they're rushing to get rich before they get old and the demographics are against them. Europe and the EU is more stable than either, with a much narrower wealth and health and living standards gap than either. Europe is doing OK. More than OK. Actually in world history of the last 3000 years it's been a rare enough time when Europe wasn't doing OK, or wasn't the dominant economic and cultural power.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,485 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    He has absolutely miscalculate everything and it all comes back to his own self imposed bunker syndrome. During Covid he isolated himself multiple times and reduced and reinforced his inner circles so nobody will tell him no or give bad news which means he was being fed completely wrong info leading up to this about the way Ukrainians would receive russian tropps all the way to the state of the russian military itself. I go back and forth on this but the only way i see this going is Putin eventually being ousted by military with the backing of the oligarchs but it wont happen i dont think until there is visible mass public discontent so when that might happen is a question nobody can answer.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I posted earlier in the thread about the Russian psyche, but accepting all that stuff means they have to be treated with suspicion (and maybe disdain). Whatever the reasons behind it all, we are where we are and if they lack basic faculties on a mass scale then we need to bear that in mind.

    I think it was this thread I shitted on about different groups in politics. High-info principled voters, high-info selfish voters, low-interest voters on each side etc. Point being in the last week we've seen them go from not knowing to not caring. Whatever the reasons for getting to this point it's the point that we're at now.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They will handle civilian airliners in a civil manner (impounding planes etc). They are not going to start sending up jets to intercept civilian planes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    I was watching a bit of the Fox news yesterday. Chomping at the bit some of them are to go in some how.


    One ex general was saying that they could send fighter jets o the Ukrainian military and give them some fighter pilots, serving or ex military to fly them


    Apparently it's not without precedent, it was done before



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,485 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Indeed I think they are letting them through so they can try and get them back to the leasing companies.



  • Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I hope you're right. Geopolitics is so abstract and unempirical that it feels a bit grandiose to engage in it. Europe is a prize for sure. (No wonder there's been so much feckin' fighting over it.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,366 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I don't think Putin has miscalculated his military capabilities.

    His security apparatus have told him what he wants to hear.

    It was inevitable, if the only acceptable answers to your questions or demands for 20 years is yes and you surround yourself with an increasing shrinking circle of hard line nutters, you will tend to get gross erroneous information.

    To say the mood is awkward in the Kremlin war room at the moment would be a understatement.

    Be prepared to hear the news that an advisor or 2 tragically falling out windows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭J_1980


    Icbm and thermonuclear weapons weren’t around back then. The nuclear arsenal was also tiny.



  • Site Banned Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    The same mother Russia that is going bankrupt by the day.

    There is loads of false media out there too. The sanctions are not crippling Russia the way we think they are and some of the sanctions are in place only but not all I could bet on that. Russia are coping well for a country that is supposed to be virtually shut down.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,304 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yeah, despite being a member, they absolutely won't let the UN in, they'll claim it's a Western conspiracy and as we've seen they will attack UN convoys



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭TalleyRand83


    I think your missing the point, IRA style warfare to be blunt actually worked whether people like to admit it or not, its not about hearts and minds of the ordinary Russians it would be about showing them what Putin has caused and the consequence of attacking a neutral neighbor with no real pretext and hopefully disrupt his position.

    Do you think Ukrainian teenagers with sticks and stones fighting a large military force in Ukrainian Cities is better? Because that's what is happening at the minute



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,366 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    They are refusing to open their stock exchange.

    The fingers in the ears la la la la la economic plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,304 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    More anti-air stuff on it's way, it's vital for the Ukrainians that Russia does not get air superiority



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I really don't know. The Russian people are heavily invested in their country and in Putin as their czar. What we see as state overreach and censorship, they've grown up to think as normal. You may remember the Kursk submarine disaster 20 odd years back. At one of the state press conferences/meetings for the relatives of the trapped submariners, one woman clearly in terrible distress started shouting at the speakers demanding answers. A couple of state types went up to her and the next thing she was slumped, likely sedated and removed from the room. Well at the time a friend of mine was going out with a Russian woman and we, the Irish in the room watching this on the news were all WTF?😮. The Russians in the room where all "well it's a pity, but she was hysterical and unhelpful, so fair enough" kinda attitude. Very different worlds.

    They're also well used to hardship. At least any over 30 or 40 are. Triple that for those living outside the big cities. The sanctions will hit the not being able to go to IKEA with my new iPhone or fly to Turkey for a sun holiday types. But they're a tiny minority of Russian people. If we in Ireland were faced with similar we'd lose our shít in a matter of days and sue for peace. Very different worlds.

    Putin has to save face. The one thing he can't show is failure. He'll be forgiven everything else but that by his subjects. NATO and the EU don't want to get any more dragged into this beyond sending support. Neither actually want Ukraine in NATO or the EU anytime soon and never really did. Not until it eased off on being a backward corrupt corner of Eastern Europe with a simmering civil war in its east and Putin hovering. This invasion will speed up reform there, but EU membership is likely a decade away(and IMHO that puts the fear of the devil in Putin more than NATO).

    So at some stage one of these 'peace talks' will hammer out a compromise. And it'll have to be a compromise. The only time such talks aren't is when one side has overwhelming force, like at the end of WW2 with Germany(with Japan they did compromise more). Probably along the lines of Russia keeps the Donbas region, but effs off from the rest of the country and Ukraine effs off from Donbas. The country's borders are redrawn accordingly and Putin goes back to Russia with most sanctions lifted, because always follow the money. The EU will forget their ah sure the Russians are grand notions and tool up as a deterrent. Putin at some stage will tragically die and hopefully a lesser wanker inherits his throne.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Maybe have a point if NI was like 90%+ Nationalist, but it wasn't, hence a big difference.

    Borders polls show that if given the choice NI would remin in the UK, another big difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I do remember the Kursk disaster. The Russians were more concerned about the PR than saving those sailors.

    I agree, the Russians are cold and resilient people. And even though they got rid of the Czars, they still have an inherent need for a visibly strong leader. Democracy structures bore them somewhat - they need someone to be the boss. I am sure when Putin goes, the next guy will have to be just as intimidating and arrogant to survive.

    I did a strawman post on how I think this will play out if you are interested.

    Russia - Page 587 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,235 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    We're fucked if the EU bring in minimum defence spending as a % of GDP.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Their currency is in freefall, a huge chunk of their foreign currency is frozen. They're shut out of most banking. Even the Swiss have closed the door. Their airline industry is fooked and will be grounded within a month or two. Western corporations have shut off the taps. Western manufacturing bases in Russia are closing one by one. The carmakers have already done so. All the brands they could buy last week, they can't buy this week. They've closed their internal stock exchange because when it opens it's game over for that. There's a run on their banks for what currency they do have. The biggest shipping companies on earth have shut down a huge part of their ability to export/import even post stuff.

    Oh and these sanctions have only been in place for a matter of days. See how well they cope in the weeks and months to come if they don't come to the table.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭TalleyRand83


    Ukraine is 90% + nationalist so I think it would be a good move, they're being bombed to bits...toe to toe fighting is not going to work, guerilla all the way in Kiev AND Moscow. We could send over a delegation of experts from South Armagh!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭weisses


    I dont understand the outrage re the nuclear powerplant in the whole context of this war. It was always a vital target for the russians to seize and not destroy this site. It would have made living in crimea a bit complicated if they would have blown up those 6 reactors. I dont believe Ukraine had a large force defending it for the same reason. So all in all its an expected move which Selensky is blowing out of proportion to gain more attention ( all logical by the way)

    If Selensky was only 20% as demented as Putin he would have Blown up the whole thing and let the northerly winds do the rest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭joe40


    I think Russia under Putin is now doomed over the medium term. Obviously not soon enough to save Ukraine, it looks like they won't surrender any time soon so Russia has no option now but to escalate the violence and destruction. Mad man like Putin will not back down.

    The west will not intervene militarily because of nuclear weapons so Ukraine will be destroyed.

    However there is no way back for Russia now on the world stage, there can be no excuses about trade necessary for Oil/gas etc. There will be no way Russian wealth can be spent in the west.

    My only hope is that Putin will eventually be replaced and a Russian goverment that fully embraces democracy is installed.

    Maybe clutching at straws here but is there any possibility that the kind of change which took place in Germany after WW2 could take place in Russia.

    In the space of a few years Germany went from cruel inhumane dictatorship exterminating millions to a respected important country in western European. Is such a change possible in Russia



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    There's a certain amount of hangover from the communist days where the state dictated every aspect of your life...from the cradle to the grave, 365 days a year. But communism "ended" in 1991, and so should be nothing but a memory now for older Russians, yet it lingers on. Protesting in Russia carry's a cost, and that cost has now increased to a possible 15 year prison sentence ( rushed through the Duma this week) for anyone spreading "fake" information, or making statements about the military. Its on TV about a Babushka who survived Stalingrad, yet who was arrested on the streets because she protested about the War in Ukraine. In just 4 days, 6'000 war protesters were arrested and imprisoned, and that figure is rising. And Putin is appearing on TV, with his lying claims that no civilians are being hurt, and the "Intervention" is just to root out Nazi's and protect ethnic Russian's. So Putin is attacking Russians too, and it will not end until his grip on power slips,,,,and that will only happen when Russians in their hundreds of thousands take to the streets , and take on the police. Revolt in effect. And even if that happens, Putin will pit the military against them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    That's what I meant by miscalculating his military capabilities - he believed what he was being told.

    It's easy to drop massive bombs on a defenceless Aleppo for weeks on end while the world watches. Invading a European country that was prepared for war is a different story.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I'm not so sure about this American waning power narrative, they are no doubt still running the game, as much as any single country has.

    They can cause mayhem anywhere globally without commiting a single soldier and economically they can conduct the orchestra still in the right conditions. Of course we are all interdependent now. Globalisation has been great for world peace, the more interdependence we can get, the more the hands of any single country or regime will be tied. These Russia sanctions will be a great test, I hope it works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,925 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    Easterly winds due next week with a deep freeze likely in the conflict zone, good for moving tanks and supply vehicles accross frozen fields. Could lead to an acceleration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,840 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    On the "ordinary Russians don't know" subject - I'm pretty sure most of them must know Putin is more gangland mafioso than politician. Garry Kasparov would have been one of the most famous men in Russia when his attempt to run for the Russian presidency was crushed by Putin's gang. They know their dictator is a criminal, they're just (not unjustifiably) too scared to rise against him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭weisses


    Nice ..... Russians without proper supplies having the choice of either freeze to death or move back to Russia .... Anti tank units will have a field day picking them off one by one in the open fields



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,925 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    Good article from the BBC on how it might end, my money is on the "Long War" scenario at this stage.




This discussion has been closed.
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