Russia - threadbanned users in OP

That would create huge problems for Russians trying to travel anywhere internationally. EU airspace was already shut down, as was Canadian.

Someone who was born in 1985? If their parent was 35 when they were born (1950) and their grandparent was 35 when the parent was born that's 1915 so you are talking about them being 24 at the start of WW2 and 30 at the end of it. That would hardly be an outlier

Agree.

I think it's gone plenty far enough. At what point do you take action... 1,000 innocent people killed? 2,000? 10,000? 100,000? more?

The risk of a nuclear response from Putin will always be there, now and in the future. But his charge has to be halted.

The free world has to intervene militarily, now, and I for one am not cowed by the threat of nuclear armageddon. Myself and my family would prefer to take that risk than just be helpless onlookers in a world where indiscriminate killing of thousands of children, mothers, elderly and whole families, and the displacement and destruction of millions of lives is allowed to happen before our very eyes simply because of a billionaire tyrants threats.

We've none of us any place on a planet where we willingly allow such things to happen.

I've been wondering about that. If, say, Poland was attacked next year and called for help from fellow-members of NATO, what's to stop the same argument being invoked as is the case with Ukraine? "Ah well, it's not that simple, he's got nuclear weapons you see..." Claiming that it's different because Poland is in NATO but Ukraine wasn't wouldn't necessarily alter that stance.

Not that I'm calling for NATO action in the Ukraine, I'm just wondering if the failure to do so might give the easternmost NATO members pause for thought about the club they're in.

And if Nato did not exist, he would still find a pretext to be in Ukraine...he wants the old Soviet Union back. He would do what he did in Georgia, flood the place with Russian passports and then send in the military to "Protect Ethnic Russians". worked before , why not again??

It means they cannot even schedule the flight as they know it is already banned. It effectively knocks out huge tracts of the northern hemisphere and makes it impossible for Russian planes to fly anywhere within it.

Read the book and it's certainly an eye-opener.

For 20 years or so by now, Russian people have been trying to get rid of Putin....so far, he has defeated them all, and there's plenty of cases of sudden deaths, mysterious vanishings and long term prison sentences for those who have crossed him. It would have been done a long time ago, if the Russians themselves could have done it. Now maybe ( but its not a given) that the circumstances have radically changed, his career might be nearing its end.

They seem to be targeting the infrastructure now - TV tower in Kiev, power plants, mobile phone link towers. And government buildings in Kharkiv. Going to be harder for defenders if there is no power or water, and if command structures are disrupted. If they can surround Kyiv (and keep Kharkiv surrounded), while advancing in other places, then the Russians might have an advantage. You'd think the Russians don't want street to street fighting in the bigger cities.

But Ukraine is getting more weapons delivered, and they did start mobilising after the attack, which means new units are being formed all the time - if they can get them into play before there's any kind of collapse, then it's going to be bad for Russia.

I don't think there's anything that would absolutely *compel* NATO allies to move in the scenario that you describe.

However, if NATO allied don't respond, it's a green light to Russia and China that they can go in and take any bit of vulnerable territory they wish with no risk of direct confrontation. The USA, especially, would find itself toppling down the world pecking order with one decision

Okay it's late, I don't often post, but...

Well the defiance of the Ukraine people I think has shrunk all our balls a bit, I don't know if I would be so brave.

A part of me though now is like ok, F%ck Putin, call his bluff, spin the dice. Send in the F18's and bomb that convoy into particles.

Keep the football nearby, despots don't want to die either. I guess more measured heads than me are needed.

But if that F%cker gets away with this again we are all in trouble.

I know the quote, all that's needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing (Putin doesn't care about sanctions), it seems so apt in this case.

In the evenings when I'm staring into the fire, this breaks my heart.

Can you imagine the bravery it takes for a civilian ( a plumber, shop keeper etc ) to walk up to a Russian tank, the last thing you will see is the muzzle flash.

How does this end? I dunno.

Russian press is still talking even tonight about dismantling Ukraine or alternatively turning it into a puppet regime under Putin's control. These guys are beyond deluded - it's as if they are drinking the same kool aid as that crank in the Kremlin.

Thankfully, I dont think Russia have the capability to launch an all out war beyond Ukraine. I may have even over estimated their military myself. Although they were not using all their forces and the full power of their artillery and airforce yet, they seem devoid of morale already, disorganised, terrible logistics and poor strategy. Add on top of this their already tinpot economy is in ruins and will only get worse. No huge fanatical support domestically for this war or others either. Theyre in no position for a large protracted war never mind against nato.

Unfortunately vlad has nukes, which he is unlikely to use and he also will cause damage and many deaths in this invasion of ukraine before its over either way.