The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing

As always a fantastic race report and huge kudos for finishing the marathon - that took massive mental strength so well done. As others have said someday soon it will all click and you will have a massive performance. Keep the faith!

Hey Alan, there was only one place that I was going to go first after ending my short Boards hiatus and you certainly haven't let me down. Another great effort from a young auld lad/auld young lad! I can only repeat what others have said, namely that it was a fantastic race report, a proper gritty race and a fantastic addition to your fitness bank. Congratulations 💪

I wondered as well if the race you did was quite close to the marathon

Fair enough.

I think everyone could follow the points you made there anyway

I agree with all but no 3 mainly because I don’t really do s&c either but cover that part by plenty of hilly runs.

no 4 I think I can help you there. Let me know if you are interested and we may be able to discuss on a run together.

other than that great analysis and summary of key learnings.

Haha D, you read my mind🤣

OK fair enough...here goes....

Anyone following this log over the past few months would've seen an exceptionally solid block of training. Was that your feeling too or did you have lingering doubts about producing a pb? If so it didn't come across in your log updates. That being said I know the marathon is an unpredictable beast .

A lot of your learnings seem to suggest Daniels isn't necessarily right for you. Are you done with his marathon plans? I'm especially curious as to why you think longer steady runs are of more benefit than MP sessions. If I recall you had at least a 14 mile MP session.im struggling to see how a steady run at MP +30s is better than that.

Why do you think over distance is important? I found this one really interesting. I know a few serious marathon guys, none of whom touch anywhere near 26 miles in training.

I had no idea you were so disciplined pre big sessions. Is that always the case? Really made me rethink my own strategy which at best is average. Some of my big Monday sessions are often followed by a weekend of poor diet and too many drinks.

Do you think you need hill sprints in the marathon block or should that be part of the base building pre marathon?

Some of your learnings make me think coaching would be a better fit for you as none of the above are seen in most generic plans. Any plans to go back to coaching?

I know you've probably analysed this to death but what was different about your San Seb block of training where you ran 2.52 with no cramping issues? There must be something different between now vs then?

Last point and please don't take this the wrong way. I ask because I genuinely want to see you do well.

In your learnings you don't mention anything about your paces in training. I've often noticed you run threshold or MP sessions either faster than prescribed or on the aggressive end of the range. Do you think that played any part in the legs maybe not being 100% conditioned? Or are you happy enough you're executing the sessions as you would like?

I did warn ye! Take it as a compliment that I've thought this much about your success as a runner AMK. 🤣

On the “working with a coach” section, I would phrase it slightly different: instead of following a generic plan (one not designed for a specific runner/target race), would you take the time and sit down look at another runner who received coaching in the lead up to a race and write down every session, every run including notes on paces, elevation etc and then follow that?

with regards to longer runs, would you differ between: more time on feet during a long run that your actual race time on feet and distances covered? Personally I don’t think you need to run a marathon during training for a marathon but definitely should at least get close to the time on feet during the race. Though I can see the mental benefit of running longer during the training as long as it is slower too.

as mentioned I do believe your cramping have a lot to do with your nutrition on the day. Overkill at least from own experience. Though SB I don’t see anything wrong in your lead up to a session. More the opposite, if you manage your tough sessions on a “weak” body race day should feel like a walk in the park (as you know I remain to be a firm believer in running on empty even if the run is late in the day!!!).

Race pace vs Training pace, my question here would be what’s your thought process behind what route to take for a hard session? I have noticed that runners (I could myself doing that too a few times, won’t happen again) would pick a route with the mindset “here I will definitely be able to hit them paces. Not too much uphill, slightly downhill or flat and wind of almost no issue”. What’s your approach?

The race itself, how do you approach that mentally? Do you look at it like “I’m going to run a marathon today!” Or more like “right, I break it down into 7 different, small races!” (Which I do to keep me mentally sharp throughout!). I usually come up with a good number of small targets that I want to accomplish in such a race and by that the first 30k fly by like it was nothing. 🙂

Wups sorry I should have been more patient and read the comments on!

My little contribution is that it’s important to value the training that you’ve completed. Think about it as though it were someone else and what you would advise that person - I think you’d be like a lot of us and say Jaysus lad that was some training block. You might go as far as to say you did everything right, maybe you’d tell a fella to go and tweak some of the long runs or sessions. Sometimes we all dont have our day on the big day and it’s for reasons other than anything being ‘wrong’ in the build up preparations. You could have done that 10 different ways and in 3 of them cramped up, 3 of them been over or undercooked and 3 performed perfectly in accordance with your goals. That leave 1 for something mental to happen cos there’s always that possibility too.

Anyhow I think you’re brilliant for offering up all of your thoughts and baring your training like this when things didn’t go your way… exactly. You showed some amazing toughness when the going wasn’t good and the chips were down. Well done!

Cheers for that AMK.

Fair play for opening up to the floor on this one - it really should be the whole point of a log, or at least a lot of the reason behind having one.

I couldn't agree more with the longer steady versus focusing so much on MP angle. Especially when you allow for how flexible you can make those runs, progression, alternating steady with MP etc....it allows for those huge aerobic gains but is that bit safer in terms of building up damage in the muscle fibres etc. I know I've bored the ears off you before about this but look up some Lydiard stuff for ideas on how to approach a block with that kind of strategy (Murph is a good reference point at the moment, he's putting it to good use)

L mentions it above but I'd maximise the use of those hills in the park, forgetting about hitting a pace and just making sure you're working at the right level, the more I read and the more I listen to respected coaches or successful athletes, the more I look towards Howth for the next phase of training for me.

I really think we have started to overcomplicate training with terminology and technology, especially us folks who are never going to make a dent at the pointy end of things. We don't HAVE to hit splits every single time, we don't HAVE to do anything more than look at how the fundamentals of most training plans originate from a very simple approach, run lots of miles, run easy miles very easy (which you do), run over lots of hills and develop aerobic strength by spending lots of time in that high end aerobic space but don't overcook it.

You're a student of the sport so I've no doubt you'll find an interesting way forward, one last thing I would urge you to consider is to cast a conservative eye over your next plan.....rather than having so many big, knock it out of the park sessions and risk having to change them on the day because you're just not recovered enough (or whatever), maybe consider deliberately being conservative with some of the sessions when you're putting the plan together and avoid having to change them on the day. I really think this will serve you best in the long run. You most likely just don't need so many big sessions, you've had a super consistent few years.

I find this one interesting (posted it on a different thread too) and looking back at my lead up to the last 3 big races it’s been a similar approach/mindset by the coaches (I think).

Apart from key workouts that were part of the long runs most of those been kept fairly short and always followed a workout day. Plus I personally think 2 20-22k runs a week each the day after a workout bring more to the plate than 1 22miler per week.

All in all though I think we over complicate and over analyse things. Let’s just go out there and enjoy running. 🙂