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Everything you always wanted to know about electric vehicle (but were afraid to ask)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,120 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    It makes perfect business sense. They can write off the entire cost of the install against tax in the first year and electricity doesn't cost much to fill up a customer's car. When I now book a hotel I always ask up front if they have car charging and if they don't, they won't get my business. Simple.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭innrain


    There are 2 limits on the energy recuperation.

    First is the size of the motor. Bigger is better. In hybrids they are quite small in PHEVs they usually get bigger but much smaller than in EVs. Imagine that if you produce less mechanical energy in a given time with a smaller rated motor, the reverse is also true.

    The second limiting factor is the battery size. Again bigger is better. In a small battery you can't add much energy in a short time even if the motor is able to produce it. Again hybrids have the smallest batteries ~<10kWh, PHEVs ~<15kWh while EVs roam around >50kWh.

    I can workout numbers for each case but as a hand waving argument these 2 limitations put hybrids recuperation energy on a much lower scale compared to EVs.

    Say you have to leave the motorway and slow down a 2t car from 120km/h to 60km/h that is around 200Wh energy difference or as charging goes 6 minutes on a 3 pin plug. The question is are you able to harvest it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,120 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @innrain - have you a formula to calculate the energy based on mass, speed and or acceleration (deceleration)?

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,344 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    I see a few lads on here have fitted their own Dash Cam , I previously have always had mine fitted professionally by Halfords.

    I see as I plan too pick up my new EV this week when I tried to book a fitting with Halfords and they are refusing to fit Dash cams on EV or PHEV

    Anybody know what this is about ? Does anybody know a retailer who installs on EV vehicles at the same price point (~40 euro)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    E = 1/2 x m x v(squared) but not sure what the units are! So a reduction in speed from 120 to 60 means you have to do something with three/quarters of the energy. Traditionally you heated up your discs!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    On further research I believe the units are Joules, kg and meters per second. 1 Joule = ! watt second so 3,600,000J = 1kwh so for a 2000kg car decelerating from 120km/h (33.3m/s) to 60km/h -

    Energy = 3/4 x 1/2 x 2,000 x 33.3 x 33.3 = 831,000J = 0.23kwh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Weird they don't install on EVs. Maybe more chance if something going wrong.

    MG were smart enough to put a usb in the reader view mirror console so you just plug it in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭innrain


    That is absolutely brilliant Paul. Joule is the unit for energy in SI. Now before @unkel comes and disagree we must mention the above model works in the assumption of a flat surface and of course we discount drag variation with speed, losses due to heat, etc.

    Usually the motorway slips are slopped but that is very easy to account for using potential energy E_p=mgh. assume g=10m/s2 h =10 m (not sure how high a motorway bridge is but safe enough) delta E_p= 200 000 J (Ws) or about a quarter of the gain from the kinetic energy. The reverse is also true. If you go down 10m in altitude you gain 56 Wh

    Lets stay with 200 Wh figure for the moment (we assume we slowdown to 50km/h to compensate for the difference). What would be a comfortable time to perform the deceleration? I googled and found something like 3.4 m/s2 which yields the time required to reduce speed of 4.7 ~5s. We can calculate the theoretical power we can recuperate as Power = Energy / time => 144kW lets call it 100 kW. You need a motor capable of generating such power (which a HEV will never have, a PHEV will barely but a BEV mostly) and also a battery capable of accepting this power and we can repeat: HEV never, PHEV unlikely BEV mostly. So here is why BEVs will always have better recuperation and of course better overall efficiency. Sorry for such long posts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    Using your EV as a 220v power supply ....

    With power outages around the country it seems a good time to ask this!

    Excluding dedicated 220v units as in the new EV6/Ioniq5 V2L how realistic is it to get 220v power from an EV? I'm talking about the standard power inverters that come from 100w to 2000w or so and clip directly onto the 12v battery in most cases.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    Make sure its a pure sine wave inverter, the big question is, how much can you draw from the 12 v battery versus what rate it is being charged at from the traction battery.

    Draw more than the charging rate and your 12 v is going to go flat after prolong heavy use.

    I have a 1000 watt inverter, I would not use all of that 1000 watts for long periods only maybe half, I have used it on the well pump, but on and off as needed. I would believe that would be near its max capacity.

    Modified sine wave inverter is the other type but it can damage some electronics, cannot say what .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,120 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    You need to know what you are doing. Connect to the 12V lead acid and if the car isn't on / aware, it will drain very quickly and it is easy to drain the lead acid that way. The inverter would cut off and your car would not longer start, until you manage to jump start it or charge the battery from an external source first.

    I have an inverter permanently connected on my Tesla, but these cars are "always on", so you don't run that risk. Obviously you could force your EV to be on while using the inverter


    I would also recommend to only use a good quality pure sine wave inverter. And use a fused circuit to protect your battery from over current.


    You could of course connect directly to your DC-DC converter (the bit of equipment that charges your 12V lead acid battery from your main high voltage traction battery), but you need to know even better what you are doing there 😂


    After all these caveats, a 220V system is super handy to have, not just when you are out and about (e.g. camping) but also when you have a power cut at home. I powered my office (router / PC / monitor / phone charger) with it for several hours when we had a prolonged power cut last year. There is also so much energy in your car's high voltage battery that you could power your whole house for a week from an EV (if you had the appropriate systems in place)

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    Thanks guys. The Ioniq5 has a "UTIL" mode which keeps power on the battery though I haven't checked that it works yet! I presume reading the voltage on the 12v would verify it?

    In the simplest case scenario it'd be grand just to cover power cuts so 700w travel kettle, maybe microwave, TV, lamps, gas boiler, wifi modem but obviously not all at the same time!

    In a more advanced scenario it'd be nice if your home charger could draw back power from the car and feed it back into your mains system if you needed it or even if it made sense pricewise with stored night rate electricity. Does anything like that exist?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,120 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Yes, that's the holy grail. It's called V2H (vehicle to home) or V2G (vehicle to grid)


    In future all EVs will have this capability and they can be used as an enormous buffer for when excess renewable is generated (from solar and wind). This buffer can then be used when demand is high and / or when there is a shortage of renewables


    You can emulate this already a little bit by charging up your EV at night and by using an inverter on your car to (partially) power your house

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Didn’t Skoda start doing this a few years back too.

    all cars should have it as standard.

    give it a dedicated fuse in the fuse box and only power on when the systems power up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,146 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Figured I'd ask this in here so as not to clog up anyone else's thread. Haven't been on here for a while, so out of the loop regarding EVs/PHEVs.

    Can someone explain the dos/don'ts/can/can'ts regarding importing cars now?

    Last time I was around, the talk pre-Brexit was you'd not have to pay VAT on cars from the UK as long as they were first registered in Northern Ireland. Is this actually the case?

    And when it comes to EV/PHEV VRT rebates, are they still available, again as long as the car was originally purchased in Northern Ireland?

    Thanks folks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87 ✭✭AFOL


    I am sure this has been asked before but...

    Do I need to have an EV car already to apply for the charger grant? I would like to have a charger installed before my car is delivered. You need to first get grant approval before having the charger installed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭the 12 th man


    No you don't but you will need to send them a photo of your taxi plugged into your charger in your driveway to be reimbursed,you can fill in the application to get the ball rolling in the meantime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭cannco253


    I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but it's up on the IEVOA website



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    I suspect this is a particularly stupid question so I am afraid to ask ...

    Can I use a Tesla Supercharger to charge my Ioniq 5? I'm going to West Kerry next month and the one in Tralee is ideally located for a quick charge!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,719 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    No. Currently they are available to Tesla cars only.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    So why have they two different connectors on them? Which one does the Tesla use?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,166 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Tesla Model S & X use the Type 2 looking plug, and Model 3/Y will use the CCS plug. The newer V3 sites are CCS only so Model S & X will need to use a CCS adaptor with V3 SuperChargers.


    Currently Superchargers in Ireland are not part of the opening up trial thats taking place in Germany, Holland, France & Norway

    Model S;

    PfYJAVs.png

    Model 3;

    Tesla-Model-3-charging-c1e6950a.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭Sabre Man


    In this video Inge talks to Paul Kelly, IT/webmaster at the Irish EV Owners Association, about best practices for taking care of EV batteries. Paul answers the following questions:

    What is the ideal level of charge, also known as the state of charge?

    Should I let the state of charge drop to a certain level before charging?

    Is frequent charging to 100% bad for the battery? Is it bad for the battery if I charge to 100% at home if I'm not going anywhere immediately?

    Is fast charging bad for your battery? Should we avoid fast charging if possible?

    Is it bad for the battery if it's completely empty?

    Should you be driving more often?

    Is it OK to charge your EV every day?

    What should you do if you won't be driving for a few weeks, for example if you're going on a holiday and are leaving your car at the airport?

    Are all batteries and battery management systems created equal, or are some better or worse than others?

    What are the main factors causing battery degradation? Is it time, mileage, or charging habits?

    How long does the battery in an electric car last?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 801 ✭✭✭breeno


    Is there a thread around recommended electricity tariffs? We've just had a smart meter fitted at home and the fitter recommended I look at a smart tariff that gives you a free days electricity per week on Saturday or Sunday and I figured charging an electric car once a week would be an ideal scenario for my use case.

    Hoping to make the EV jump next year so would be interested to hear if anyone has has taken the above tariff or if there's another out there recommended?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    UK - VRT depending on value. VAT on the total price including delivery. May also need an import agent.


    NI - if registered on or before 31st Dec 2020 then it can be imported VAT free but usual VRT applies.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    You don’t need to have the car.

    You do need to state which car your buying and battery size.

    Once the car arrives you’ve to send in a series of photos of the car plugged into the charger.

    Money arrives about 8 weeks after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,596 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Can a manufacturer remotely disable all their electric cars in a single country if they wanted to, if so can all do this? I recall Tesla had some update to security a few months back and owners had problems getting in to their cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭markpb


    They had a server outage which stopped people from using the app (via the internet) from unlocking their phone. It didn’t affect anyone using their key, key card or app via Bluetooth.

    Hypothetically it should be possible to do what you’re suggesting as long as the car has an internet connection and there’s a link from there to the motive side of the CANbus. I doubt the functionality is supported by any cars firmware and there would be a lot of deep, meaningful decision making before they did include it. It sets an extremely bad precedent.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,166 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    In a Tesla all you have to do is remove the SIM card and omit cuts all communication with home base.

    tehn just avoid Wi-Fi hotspots in case the car tries to connect that way..



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