Why is the Irish Labour party such a failure ?

Ballycommon Mast · 21-02-2022 2:21pm #1

SF are only one General election away from having their leader in the office of Taoiseach, The Irish Labour party is the oldest political party in the country yet they've never even been the main opposition party like SF are today. When you consider that the modern day version of SF had only 1 Dail seat 25 years ago and 5 seats 12 years ago, it really is pathetic that Labour who had an 80 year headstart blew it all.

21-02-2022 2:30pm

Who do Labour represent? Not working class Irish people. They stand for nothing and are fading into obscurity.

All identity politics, open borders and no substance.

Everlong1 · 21-02-2022 2:33pm

Because Paddy doesn't do socialism, having had it bet into him by the priests for decades that Socialists are all heathen atheists and we can't be having Godless Reds under Paddy's bed.

Donald Trump · 21-02-2022 2:37pm

They are caught between our "right" parties actually being more centrist and then the loonies giving anything further left a bad name.

They also got decimated after a stint in government. I think they had a huge increase one election and then were crucified in the next.

(I'd say SF are more populist than socialist in reality tbf)

Wanderer78 · 21-02-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118667642#Comment_118667642

the labour party are far from a socialist party, they latched onto neoliberal polices and ideologies, which in turn screwed over their intended base, and the rest is history.....

oceanman · 21-02-2022 2:48pm

they supported water charges......that finished them off and good riddance.

21-02-2022 2:52pm

Labour chose to abandon workers and compete in the same market as FFG.

Their current plight is entirely self-inflicted.

It was only ever a meaningful party of labour for 10-15 years after its foundation.

Ballycommon Mast · 21-02-2022 2:58pm

Joan Burton sounded like a tory party minister when she was giving interviews around 2012/2015 about slashing lone parents allowance.

Bannasidhe · 21-02-2022 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118667672#Comment_118667672

Every political party is "populist" - they formulate policies to make themselves popular enough to get votes. As no one party can be all things to all voters, obviously parties chose which demographic is more likely to support them and they try and become 'popular' with them.

They all do it. It's politics.

Labour's problem (and I am an ex-party member and relative of a, now deceased, ex-LP TD) is they can't make up their minds who they wish to be popular with.

They forgot who founded them, and why they were founded.

They expect grass roots members of the party to also forget.

From 1932 they chose to place themselves in the position of eternal mudguards when they could have chased Connolly's legacy and positioned themselves as socialist republicans whose primary goal was the protection of working people by creating a genuine republic. They utterly failed to do so.

But the real issue is the LP seem to be unable to learn the lesson of when and why they gain seats - it was every time the electorate wanted a genuine change in Irish politics.

After every spin of the FF/FG Boom/Bust merry-go-round the LP would be shouting and roaring what many of the electorate were saying, gain a load of seats, then hop on the same bloody merry-go-round,

Each and every time the LP hitched it'self to same old same old, claimed to be protecting workers while it's ministers signed off on swingeing cuts. And were decimated in the next election.

Problem was they were really the only viable Left party in the State (not that they were particularly Left as a party, but they did have individual TDs who were).

The difference now is there are alternative parties on the Left. Soc Dems are positioning themselves as what the LP should be. PBP represent those further left, and SF are hoovering up the angry votes that used to swing to the LP.

Stooping to comments about "loonies" really just shows, imo, that you have difficulty understanding how fed up people are with 100 years of the same FF/FG shite.

Donald Trump · 21-02-2022 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118667816#Comment_118667816

"Populist" has a meaning. Wikipedia is a starting point for anyone confused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism

For an even quicker overview, simple English wikipedia is here https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism

Butson · 21-02-2022 3:13pm

They haven't learned the lessons of the colleagues in British Labour under Corbyn.

All this identity politics nonsense. Look at Aidan O'Riordain's twitter page. Appeals to the upper middle classes as opposed to the working class.

Niche.

WrenBoy · 21-02-2022 3:25pm

'Frankfurt's Way or Labour's Way" ... that was the end for them

Ballycommon Mast · 21-02-2022 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118667880#Comment_118667880

Corbyn wasn't really the problem for the British labour party, they got a very good result in the 2017 general election under his leadership. It all went tits up for the British labour party when a second Brexit referendum became their policy.

CrabRevolution · 21-02-2022 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118667816#Comment_118667816

The "Every political party is populist" is such a bogus and blatantly untrue argument. Anyone who uses it clearly doesn't know what populist means.

If all politics is populism, why do they bother having 2 different words for it? And at that, 2 words that have 2 totally different meanings.

jmcc · 21-02-2022 3:49pm

Too many YATSEs (Yet Another Teacher Seeking Election) and a betrayal of the people that the party was set up to protect.

Regards...jmcc

rock22 · 21-02-2022 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118667816#Comment_118667816

I think you sum it up very well,, Bannasidhe.

But in addition, they got onto the same band wagon as FFG in spurning any advance from SF regarding coalition talks. They were clearly happier with talking to FF and FG . In that situation they reinforced their irrelevance because if they were not going to participate in a broadly left leaning government that what was the point of the Labour party. There was a time when Labour would have been agitating to lead such a broad coalition.

Kelly didn't help pushing the water charges, even after the government fell. Any shift from general taxation to individual charges is a transfer of wealth from the less well off to the better well off but Labour either couldn't see that or refused to recognise it.

blanch152 · 21-02-2022 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234055/why-is-the-irish-labour-party-such-a-failure

If you look at politics through the lens of achieving change, well Labour have achieved far more than any of the smaller parties. The only one to come close in those terms are the Greens. As for Sinn Fein, they have yet to achieve anything of note, other than stopping killing people.

It is true that Labour lost the opportunity to permanently replace FF, but they have a long list of reform achieved in government, going back decades.

21-02-2022 3:58pm

youd want a short memory to not know what happened labour, they served as a FG shield after the FF economic disaster

and for some reason the electorate hold them more responsible than either

POBox19 · 21-02-2022 4:01pm

Labour politicians, over years spent in the refined atmosphere of Dail Eireann, have acquired tastes for the trappings of the good life in fine dining, sharp suits and fat expense accounts. They have come so far from their roots that they have forgotten where the party came from. In 1974 Charles J. Haughey TD referred to them as 'Smoked Salmon Socialists' while they were in a coalition with FG. Had Labour taken him seriously they would not be languishing in the polls today.

timmyntc · 21-02-2022 4:10pm

Labour shifted to become the party of middle class Dublin (similar with the green party).

Appealing more to champagne socialists than the working class & trade unionists of their old base.

breezy1985 · 21-02-2022 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668172#Comment_118668172

They had 2 very good runs under Spring and Gilmore after 1974.

Labours current problem was most of their talent is now gone. The likes of Rabbite, Gilmore and Quinn (all Democratic Left I think) were formidable politicians and they should have collapsed the government when Gilmore stepped down instead of going with Burton who campaigned as a more ardent FGer than their own when the election came.

jmcc · 21-02-2022 4:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668209#Comment_118668209

Labour is very much the Irish Times/RTE dinner party now. It is not the party of the Dublin middle classes though. The Greens are essentially, as someone described them, "FG on bikes". There was an influx of the type of people who would have formerly joined Labour after Labour imploded int 2016 and they, in true Stickes/Labour fashion, tried to take over the Greens and replace Eamon Ryan but, much like Labour, failed. The Greens are very different from the continental Greens who tend to be more Left-wing and almost Communist. The Irish Greens are more Right-wing. The problem for Labour is that in its move to the Right, Labour became more extreme than FG. It is now competing for the same Right of centre votes as FF/FG/Greens. It has also been replaced at the trade union by SF. There isn't really a political niche for the party now and its TDs are simply elected on their own personal vote rather than on any ideologically Labour party vote.

Regards...jmcc

El_Duderino 09 · 21-02-2022 4:44pm

I think they spend time fighting tomorrow's battle. They were pro gay rights when gay sex was illegal and they were ridiculed for it. Now the entire rest of the political parties have caught up with them and supported gay marriage recently. But people still remember Labour as gobshytes rather than saying "on reflection, Labour were decades ahead of the rest of politics in Ireland". Same with other issues like abortion and wequsl rights.

They sometimes sacrifice political expediency for being right. But you don't get seats in the Dail by being right, you get seats by saying the words that make more people vote for you. They're not as good at that as the other parties.

breezy1985 · 21-02-2022 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668365#Comment_118668365

There was a big failure of leadership surrounding gay marriage and abortion. Both of those should have been hammered home as Labour referendums because as you say Labour were fighting for them while everyone else was still under the bishops thumb.

Amazing that FG of all people got the credit in the end.

Mike Murdock · 21-02-2022 5:02pm

Labour were always Smoked-Salmon Socialists targeting fellow Middle Class "Socialists". The Workers Party were the only real Socialist party and they never moved the needle in elections.

Sinn Fein are heading in the same direction as Labour, now that they have rebranded as "Woke" Fein. Or at least pulled the wool over some people's eyes that they are Woke.

landofthetree · 21-02-2022 5:10pm

Why would "working class" people vote for them?

They already pay no tax and get loads of welfare.

SF will give you even more.

Eg

A couple on 45k with 2 kids pay no tax when you include the children allowance. What more will Lab do for you? **** all. Might as well vote SF or PBP.

breezy1985 · 21-02-2022 5:12pm

"woke" Fein 🤣 jeysus it's not even a good play on words

Diceicle · 21-02-2022 5:15pm

IMO Labour dont represent working class interests. They latch onto identity politics issues rather than substantive topics that impact all working people.

They represent the interests more of the (sterotypical) South Dublin voter rather than a shop worker or someone on the average industrial wage.

Simply Fine Gaelers with a guilty conscience.

Green Finers · 21-02-2022 5:18pm

If SF get into power, I will put as much of my assets I legally can out of reach offshore.

They will destroy the country.

They will shatter any chance of a peaceful United Ireland by alienating the Protestant and unionist community.

SF are yes men and women. They only say what they think the electorate want to hear. They were anti-EU for as long as I can remember and as soon as Brexit happened they suddenly changed their tune.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-02-2022 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668520#Comment_118668520

I think they represent the interests of poorer people ( well, society at large including poor people) but they talk like middle class, educated people -because that's what they are. Isn't it interesting that they're most successful in leafy, South Dublin? People who are generally doing alright and are happy to vote for a party that will probably tax them a bit more to provide services for the less well off. And somehow both Labour and the South Dublin voters are seen as gobshytes rather than people who are happy to put their money where their mouth is for a better country.

Maybe people think Labour should learn to ham up North side Dublin accents and forget their grammar and start exchanging th for d in their speech, but I doubt that would make their detractors happy either. I think they're authentic - and authenticity doesn't usually win elections.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-02-2022 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668441#Comment_118668441

Yeah that's probably a fair assessment. They really should.have hammered home that this was their issue for decades send the other parties had a last minute conversion the weeks before the referendum when it was clear it was popular.

Why is the Irish Labour party such a failure ?

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