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Which used full BEV would you buy for €23000 or less?

  • 18-02-2022 3:11am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭


    For example: Leaf, Zoe, i3, Ionic, etc.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,603 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    For that amount you'd get a Zoe ze 50, or a 40kw leaf , if you look around you'll get an ionic , that's 3 decent choices ...

    Just check on done deal and use the filters ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,314 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ioniq28

    We're on our second. Couldnt suggest anything better.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,389 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Well I wouldn't pay 23k for an Ioniq (I paid that 3 years ago). 2017-2019 are all the same spec so anything more than the cheapest one on Donedeal and you're paying for warranty and/or less mileage, and the 2020 car is rubbish in its electric aspects (slow charging, meh size battery/range for the price).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,314 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes don't get the 38,get the 28, and pay 18-20k max.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,906 ✭✭✭zg3409


    It depends on your needs. Firstly what is your daily commute round trip in km? What is your typical weekend long drive round trip in km?


    The Zoe 50 possibly has longest range but ccs is not a standard option and it therefore can be slow to charge on long motorway trips. It's also a relatively small car. Do you regularly carry people in rear seats or bring large bags to airport or on holidays?

    Do you have access to a second car for longer trips? EVs make sense for 99% of trips but on very long trips beyond their range you need to stop and try find a public charger not in use. This could mean a 1 hour stop at motorway services, not ideal or multiple stops on an Irish holiday. It's the most frustrating part of owning an EV.


    What do you drive at the moment? For some people it may make sense to hold off until longer range EVs are in the lower price range. All these cars are in the 100km to 250km range, while more expensive cars are in the 300-400km range. It may not suit you to be limited to 50-100km from home, without needing to public charge.


    I would pick the 28kWh ioniq over the 40kWh leaf, but it depends on circumstances, and prices of used models reflect that.


    Do you have your own driveway, do you own your own house, can you get a home chargepoint?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr


    If “other” mention which one in a comment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,314 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ioniq28

    /thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr


    What makes you feel so strongly? Curious. And if you don’t mind, can you name the various EVs you have owned and what your thinking is like about it all. Thx. My problem with Ioniq28 is the range (what real-world range you getting on one charge?). Yes it has fast-charging, but don’t want to stop to charge and with some more range I’d never have to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,314 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ihave owned a leaf 24, ioniq 28, tesla model S 90d , and now I/m back in another Ioniq 28 albeit herself's one. I'm waiting to replace the Tesla with another one shortly so we'll be a 2 EV household, currently my car is a 2004 vw touran .

    At that money 20-23k you're not going to get something with longer range. The leaf40 has similar real world range to the Ioniq28 - but it doesnt have CCS and charges much slower on Chademo. Zoe is a smaller car and again charges slowly. To get something significantly better than Ioniq28 you'd need to spend 30-33k and get an eniro/esoul used or a used Tesla model S.

    I would avoid the newer Ioniq 38 as it charges glacially slowly, avoid the leaf as it only has chademo and has rapidgate issues making it impractical for longer journeys, and the zoe , while a great car, is much smaller than the others and has a 0 ncap score.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    Why the 28 over the 38? AutoExpress lauded the 38 as a big improvement.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,314 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The 28 charges to 69kW and maintains a good curve all the way to 85%. You can do 20-94% in 25 minutes. I've done it myself.

    The 38 gains about 50km range due to the larger battery, but, as it's a battery pack from the 39kWh Kona which is in itself the same as the 64kWh minus a couple of modules, the resulting voltage drop and conservative battery charge curve, means it charges super slowly meaning even 20-80% (let alone 20-94) takes 40-45 minutes.

    Most of the Irish Ioniq 38 dont even have the same spec as the 28, eg adaptive cruise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr


    Thanks for your response. Question: how long is glacially slowly and why so? Wouldn’t we be charging it at night at home? And if needing to fast charge couldn’t we just charge the 38 model to 80%? We would be charging 99% of the time at home, I’m sure of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,758 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Ioniq 28



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,314 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Charging to 80% would take 40-45 minutes vs 20-25 in the 28. It's slower in the 38 because it is a 350v pack not 400v, and because the charge curve tapers super early slowing down the speed

    If you never do more than 220-240km in a day then it's a non issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,906 ✭✭✭zg3409


    130km worst range, winter cold, full 120km/h gps speed. Typically 160km+ more if you keep speed below 120km.

    It's ok if those limits suit your commute and weekend trips. I had a 110km commute so I saved a fortune on fuel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    What is she driving at the moment? How many km does she do a day/week/month?  £650 a month on petrol thats over 400 litres of petrol, 40 litres would more than fill my Toyota Prius.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Depends on your interest.

    i3 is a great car to drive. I loved mine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Moreilly


    Definitely Ioniq have one and it has been rock solid since I bought it new (172), great car with great tech, adaptive cruise, wireless phone charging, android auto/apple carplay...ect..., Will be selling mine in the next month or two - not just yet though! , seen a few of them on carzone as well, great car!



  • Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Moreilly


    Definitely Ioniq have one and it has been rock solid since I bought it new (172), great car with great tech, adaptive cruise, wireless phone charging, android auto/apple carplay...ect..., Will be selling mine in the next month or two - not just yet though! , seen a few of them on carzone as well, great car! at he moment the gom in winter is showing about 210km and in summer it is showing about 247km, my normal route to work has no motorways though which would probably reduce the range, super efficient car though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    BMW 218i Active Tourer! Probably not the most frugal (although it's a 3-cylinder 1.5L engine). She probably knocks up 1500km a week and I'd say she's a heavy right foot.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,125 ✭✭✭Patser


    Agreed, i3 by far and away to best drive, and best interior of all those. Only issue may be space if you need it for a few older kids.


    €23k would easily get you a 94ah with Rex, so over 250km range. If you're really lucky maybe a 120ah so you don't need rex. But still better with 94ah and specced up interior



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    A granny charger would not charge her car for 1500 km a week, that amount of miles needs a big battery car 60 kWh + at least and a proper charger.

    That sort of monthly spend on petrol would cover a long range tesla on pcp Est. monthly payment£605 /mo.

    I sure there is cheaper alternatives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr




  • Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Moreilly


    Ioniq classic 28kw (I think it might be 30 but 28 is useable)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭loopymum


    Another vote for ioniq here, what kind of trips will you be taking?

    I just totted up the mileage for the last 26 days from the ioniq & I did an average of 40 miles per day when all was said & done. A couple of 200km trips & a10 min ccs charge for me home with plenty of juice.

    We did a700km round trip in November. Two ccs charges each way was plenty. We have a diesel as well but the ioniq is so much nicer to drive especially with the lane assist & adaptive cruise control. I have an se which also has blind spot detection which was very handy on the motorway. I love it. My only gripe is it's a company car & i was going to buy it from the company when 0% bik is gone but i dont think it has lost any value at all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭stesaurus


    I'm supposed to be trading my 201 MG ZS exclusive for €22k so that would qualify as being under your budget. Looking online they are few and far between so hard to put an actual value on it.

    Anyway, more range, newer, more useful space inside, warranty etc.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    We have an Ioniq 28kWh since Jan '17. It's a great car and would likely cost around €18k at moment. I tend to put the range as a dependable 160km at 130km/h indicated on an average Irish day. It will go lower on a stormy winters day (worst for us was 140km), and you can usually recover this by dropping to 110km/h which I would do anyway in stormy conditions. I know anyone who has every owned an I3 REX seems very happy with them, they're also a pretty good choice if you need a balance and are a one car family.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Mod Note: Merged the two threads



  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭rgunning


    Another vote for Ioniq. Get one and keep the change. I will moving on from my 171 Ioniq 28kW soon, but I have to say: whoever picks it up will have a great car. Many times I have looked to upgrade it, but nothing matched it for rear seat shoulder space (which is what matters with kids / car seats), boot space, and bang for buck in terms of range for the battery size.

    If my planned change didn't pan out, I would be 100% happy to keep it; that is how much I am on the fence about changing it to a 5yr+ newer car.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr


    You merged the threads, but you got rid of the poll? The poll was a handy visual reference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr


    My reservations about the i3 are the firm suspension (I like comfort) and the fact that BMW parts are very expensive. I love the interior/dash of the i3, and iDrive and the exterior design is interesting but I worry about unforeseen costs and tyres and service costs and God knows what else. It’s an interesting car but I think to get one I’d need to have more disposable cash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr


    It’s a nice vehicle. I’m against the REX though. If I was to get the REX I’d just go for a Honda Jazz instead. I’m adamant we’re not getting a hybrid or a REX. I watched all the reviews, I just don’t want an engine in there. Either the Jazz or full BEV. I’m set on that. So if i3 it would have to be 120Ah for us. And it would need the harman kardon stereo and the 10” screen, etc. I worry it would fall out of our budget.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    The parts are the same for any of the EV’s you listed.

    Service on the BEV is every 2 years. Costs about €300 depending on what needs done. Compared to a yearly service the leaf needs at 130ish so balances out.

    Tyres is an awkward one as the i3 uses a very bespoke tyre but your not talking double the price, you might be talking an extra 200 a set.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭irelandjnr


    £700 for one wing-mirror and £1,000 for a failing driver seat-heating element in UK. That's over €2K. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wouldn't cost anywhere near this on the Ionic. Tyres are another issue, I also hear they wear down faster than other tyres, so that €200 extra adds up. Again, I like the car it's just the costs I am concerned about. And I don't want the REX model, so that brings up the cost more.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    How much is a wing mirror for an Ioniq here in Ireland?

    I had the same tyres on mine for over 18 months before I sold it. I never noticed any increased wear over any other car in particular.

    i3 tyres will automatically be more expensive as they are 19” and 20” compared to the ioniq 16/17” buts that’s a given.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    Any opinions on this car for my daughter in the UK? Assuming she can work out the charging (probably need 7.2kw home charger plus some charging while at work). 3 years old and 50% of new price. Big downer is 150,000km! What state will the battery be in?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,906 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Paul, I know you are not original poster, but we need to know daily commute round trip in km, and ling weekend trip in km. You want to avoid public charging if at all possibly day to day, so you need a big battery. Beware may 60+kWh battery cars only have a worst case range of 300+km, do in depth of winter at high speed you need to public charge or slow down to get the 400+km range claimed. Time wise it can be better to slow down and avoid stopping to charge at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,906 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Firstly we need to know round trip commute in km or miles. Then is work charging free, and can a work charge be guaranteed every day even if one or two work chargers are broken? What is long weekend trips? Does driver have access to a second car for longer trips like London to Scotland? Smaller battery Evs are better in Ireland as it's hard to go very far before hitting the sea or needing a ferry to UK. On main land UK people more often travel double the distances.

    In terms of that specific car, generally Hyundai have a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty, however generally they have a 7 year limited mileage battery warranty (8 in UK), and that mileage may have changed. In ROI it was 200,000km but then changed to 160,000km. I would be ringing Hyundai UK with the reg and checking the limit (seems to be 125,000 miles). I suspect the one owner from new is worried battery is getting out of warranty, (while rest of car is still in warranty). High mileage on an EV is typically not that bad, and the ioniq has a much better battery than say equivalent leaf. I could see battery being ok to 200,000 or 300,000km, but ideally that car should be bought by someone doing low mileage and they may get 10 more years out of it. If it's bought by high mileage person, then it would quickly get into unknown 250,000km territory where you are out of warranty and life at that is unknown ad no one has done it on an ioniq yet. For the high mileage I would expect a much higher discount, particularly due to battery warranty out, and the risk a minor battery fault would result in massive repair bill. How they got to that high mileage that soon might be an issue, did they have a long commute with only home charging or were they a travelling sales person charging on public 70kW chargers every day which is not good for batteries Personally I would spend the bit extra for mileage that stays within the warranty period for a few more years until the 8 years (7 in ROI) battery cover are up.


    I found this online, but check actual reg with Hyundai UK

    The high voltage battery warranty covers a minimum capacity for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles (for existing production models first produced prior to 2020) and a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles (for Kona EV 20MY and all new production models first produced after 2020) from the date of first registration, whichever is sooner; for repairs needed to return the battery capacity to at least 70% of the original capacity.


    Where possible the high voltage battery components will be repaired and returned to the vehicle; if unrepairable the EV battery will be replaced.


    (It worries me that they reduced warranty on newer cars, what are they worried about?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    Thanks for the comprehensive reply. It's all very complicated as she's currently living in Clitheroe, working 4 days in Blackpool plus 1 or 2 days in Doncaster area. Blackpool is 55km each way but Doncaster can be 170km (quickest route on motorway 110-120km/h) or 130km (more direct route at maybe 70-100km/h). But she's both moving house and changing jobs in next few months. When the dust settles she'll be about 40km each way 2 days, less 2 more days but still 1 or 2 days 110km each way. She'll then be PAYE 2 days a week but sole trader for 2 more so there might be tax implications with how she manages her driving!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,817 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Another vote for the Ioniq 28kWh


    Bought one new 5 years ago for €25k, sold it after 3 years for €19.5k and here we are now another 2 years later and it is possibly still worth about €17.5k in a private sale. That says it all really, no other family car has ever depreciated less. And plenty of reasons why that is. It is just a great car, very capable all rounder. To get a significantly better EV, you will have to fork out for a Tesla.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,906 ✭✭✭zg3409


    110km each way would be ok if you can charge at destination before heading back. If moving house then chargepoint needs to be moved. There may be a period with no charge point or very slow granny charging. That may get messy. I am not sure on ioniq 28kWh pricing in UK. I think charging and needing to charge is main issue and might require a car with 220km+ range so may require a higher budget. I would not rush in without ensuring I could charge the car at home or work for most trips. This is a short range EV, not ideal for those with regular long trips.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    I think our decision will be to go for a BEV and almost certainly the Ioniq. But which one? The 28 or 38?

    I've read through both threads here. Thanks to everyone who contributed on those threads. I've also watched Bjorn's videos.

    The main argument against the 38 seemed to revolve around the fact that it was much more expensive than the 28 and with it's poor DC charging was a bit of a rip-off! However, on the second-hand market in the UK, pricing is much the same with any differential due to age or mileage.

    The fact is the 38 can still add 100km range in 20 minutes if charging from 10% to 50%. I'm not sure if that'd work from 30% to 70% i.e. is the rapid throttling of charge due to heating or SOC. It also has better range, newer interior, Bluelink support.

    The main argument for the 28 seems to be the fact that it has a rock-solid battery that'll last forever. It looks like Hyundai simply spent more money on these batteries to get them reliable and long-lasting and then had to cut corners as EV production ramped up and new models came out?

    So I reckon we'd be happy enough with either of them and it'll all come down to what's available and at what price. I tried ringing Hyundai UK about the 28 I linked above but they weren't hugely helpful. It appears that if the car was used as a taxi or hire car then warranty is limited. I'm not sure how you find out? Or even exactly what the warranty is on any specific car as these changed over time. Probably the warranty document in the glovebox is the most reliable source.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,817 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Early 28kWh are far cheaper second hand than any 38kWh. It really depends on how much money you want to spend and whether you regularly do trips that the 28kWh can't complete without charging but the 38kWh can. E.g. with a 210km commute, you won't make it in winter in Ioniq 28kWh, but you will in 38kWh.


    Just checked on Autotrader, cheapest 28kWh in the UK is one from 2018 for GBP15.8k, but from a garage, so you will likely get a years warranty. Cheapest 38kWh is one from 2020 for £19k private sale, very low mileage, this one is an outlier and a total bargain at that sort of money. This won't hang around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    That car is Cat S though. How badly damaged must a 5000 mile, nearly new car be for the insurance company to write it off?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,817 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Ah, didn't spot that. Not so much of a bargain so!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭Orebro


    Ioniq38 has to be the most under-rated EV amongst the EV drivers on here, it attracts a lot of flak over the slower fast charging speeds but that completely unfairly causes it to be disregarded. The battery is 30% larger than Ioniq28, and is capable of doing 270 to 300Km. For fast charging it takes 37 mins to go from 10% to 69% giving 200Km range. Ioniq28 takes 30 mins to go from 10% to 94% for similar range. (Figure from Bjorn Nyland tests). So for the sake of 7 mins is it reasonable to bash it so much? The increased battery size means it will cover more journeys than the Ioniq28 without needing to stop.

    One other thing worth mentioning is that it is the most efficient EV ever tested by InsideEVs, trumping even the Model 3 long range. Thats no mean feat for a budget Korean family saloon! Ref: https://insideevs.com/reviews/431136/2020-hyundai-ioniq-highway-range-test/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    eGolf

    Next question :-)



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