Accounts attached - The current reality facing beef farmers - Any advice?

Look my tuppence worth is that you've gotten the idea now. Reduce the cow numbers and be absolutely ruthless in this and stay ruthless. I'm gonna try FTAI this year as I've made the call it must work around my schedule.

So dramatic reduction in cows plus summer grazing the extra land.

I'm like you in that good job but demanding family life on top of that, you've that pleasure to encounter yet!

One or two making little of your efforts re cost, at least you know your costs. Many don't.

So reduce and be ruthless is my motto.

Given that every article we read tells us that sucklers loose money plus the extra work why are people advising that a number of them be retained.?

Fixed time Ai i think, have most cows calving as close together as possible.

Sorry, but I'm going to sidetrack here a bit. So you AI a batch. Then x weeks down the line you PD them - at that stage what do you do with the empties - I presume you cull as going again would result in a second calving window for those that didn't hold first time? Or is that the plan - two tight windows and anything that doesn't hold 2nd time gets culled?

I had a large suckler herd in the 80s and liked them. Then went to fattening Fresians and got to like them too, particularly how easy they are to manage and I am still benefiting from them through my BP. I also have sheep and agree you have to have a gra for them.

That's odd! We were talking about doing this today! Talking about getting the bull genomic tested to see what we have. Got some problem calves and whilst it is highly likely the cows are the issue I want the bull checked to ensure he is good enough.

i think from my experience of taking over the farm about 8 years ago that cash flow is king. there are now no months where money isnt coming in outside of subs, it really helps to pay bills. i got rid of the few sucklers , i had about 20 kind of by accident and kept all to beef. I found there was far to much risk and labour vs reward. Now its all weanling and yearling heifer to beef, biggest finding was massive reduction on labour, vets bill and feed. younger and store heifers so easily fed and finished. i now have 120 ewes and 30 in lamb ewes and buy in around 200 store lambs each august and september although this year only bought 100 as too dear i felt. but you are in the north west so its pretty much a different world to south meath. im fearful of every lad getting in on ewe game but would a ewe flock not suit a lot better than big continental sucklers? i guess store lambs are out the window where you are for buying and killing but maybe hold over dry and sell nice hoggets for breeding in autumn? they wuld take no meal if kept dry. you need to get some way of getting cheques in every month of the year. the only month of the year i dont have money coming in is April unless a few runt store lambs/hoggets.

Dunno. I'm only saying what I'm doing really. I'm not keeping them for financial reasons.

sorry meant to say im working as well, but locally enough o no long commute, leave at 8am home at 4:30, a very odd evening i have a meeting or in autumn training a team.

If virtually all your ground is capable of producing silage, I would get rid of the suckler's over 3-4 years. Change over to a summer finishing system. Buy in bucket fed weanlings and yearlings. My own preference is for Friesians but everyone to there own as long as you keep an eye on profitability.

Watching a few marts this week 220-280 kg Fr yearlings can be bought for 350-450 euro. You would probably pick up a few coloured yearling for value as well. These sort of cattle could go to grass in Mid late March maybe even earlier. 85% of these sort of cattle ran in a paddock system will finish July-September 12 months at 330-370kgs. You would average 1350-1400 euro/ head at a 4/kg base price.

Suckler's are inherently unprofitable. Most lads cannot grasp that. On better type land you have other options. System such as Calf, weanling/yearling or store to finish systems are a much better option well.

If your internal fencing (around fields) is ok it fairly easy to work a paddock system using pigtails and reels even if you have to work off battery fencers. In time move water troughs to middle of the fields and put three posts around them. You can work paddocking very hard asy off them.

Straight away your straw cist will be gone. Your fertlizer cost will remain much the same. Silage only for store cattle being over wintered. I even question the use of ration on bucket fed weanlings if you have decent silage. Plenty of bagged minerals over the winter.

During the winter most days you will be in and out of the yard in an hour. There are days I have the silage pushed in to the barriers in twenty minutes.

First off, I'm not a farmer so I'm looking at this from the outside.

It seems to me that there are a lot of people in the business who are not worried if they don't make a profit - i.e. they have other income and are farming because they want to keep the land or because they like the lifestyle and maybe save a bit on tax.

If these people are prepared to sell at or below cost, how can someone who is trying to make a profit possibly compete with them? Any market that is flooded like this will be destroyed, whether you are selling cattle, televisions or tulips.

Farmers complain about supermarkets selling below cost (and I agree with them), but if they are doing the same thing themselves they need to stop and think and take a good look at themselves.

Is the paperwork that bad or are you trying to put off people from joining to protect organic premium ?😉

Another thing about organics is that in previous organic scheme's a lot of environmental scheme options were not available. It reduced the ability to get a decent payment off GLAS. In general it cost lads 2-4 k.in environment schemes. There is talks that this will not be a problem in future.

"...If these people are prepared to sell at or below cost" - what other option do they have? Farming is not like any other business. You can't refuse to sell. Most land in this country is only suitable for livestock. Cycle times in beef are also very long, up to 3 years and so farmers can't react to market prices quickly. All farmers can do is reduce output and try to improve efficiencies, but even that is limited.