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AP1 and AP2 posts



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Random sample

    I still don’t understand how the panel could be ignored.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭2011abc

    The principal decides ,end of...Which really makes those visiting principals on interview boards taking generous 'expenses' complicit ...just like the whole 'call in a few schmucks-preferably from the far end of the country- for interview' scenario despite having the candidate decided sham/scam ...Openness and transparency indeed.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout

    Presumably the panel that was formed in the scenario that you posted applied to A posts that may arise, a separate panel would arise for the B post competition. However if the scenario you describe has a person who just missed out on the A post also just missing out on the B post, then it is likely they are being kept out of the post.

  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ethical

    When are we going to have full,open and frank investigation into the way our school Management Bodies treat their staff when it comes to interviewing for posts etc.?

    Why is there so much money ring fenced for the Golden Circle who sit on the (sham) Interview Boards?

    Education Management is badly over due a full external audit and its past time to get away from' I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine' that has corrupted the system for far too long.........remember the students are the most important in all of this and those in Ivory Towers seem to forget this and prefer to be a parasite creaming off the system.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra

    Problem is, bang for your buck, Irish education is fantastic value. We underfund and over perform, it's any ministers dream. The appitite for reform just isn't there. Sure look at Tusla, it should be disbanded in the morning and it's still tipping away! Education will function because we have a respect for education and still thankfully produce decent teachers, we are victims of our own success

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire

    That's because the funding shortfall is made up by parents which is just accepted as the Irish way of life. Parents have no voice and so it will continue thus.

    Teachers on the other hand are generally well looked after, even historically when the country was broke, teachers generally escaped the worse of the appalling living conditions.

    It's the combination of having parents make up the funding and looking after teachers is what allowed us have a relatively decent education system.

    Post edited by salonfire on

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭Treppen

    Jesus they're all out tonight.

    What a sad troll.

    Consistent, but sad.

    As per usual salonfire.

    What's your own job?

    Tax liability?


    Education qualifications?

    Years experience?

    But no, expert on everyone else's job but won't reveal nothing about their own bread and butter.

    BTW Salonfire this is a thread on AP1 and AP2 ... I notice you're happy to lurk and troll but can never contribute to the topic in hand.

    Derail away.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra

    I think your assuming a lot about funding shortfalls here. Any teacher in a DEIS school would struggle to agree with this statement.

    We will have an acute teaching crisis, worse than the one already on the ground, over the next few years due to not paying at the going rate for the level of education required to perform the job in an economy like ours.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭Treppen

    Your explanation is wasted on Salonfire, he's been trotting out the same old shtick for years on this forum.

    Hes obviously just hanging around the teachers & lecturers forum to flamebait.

    Guy wouldn't last a wet weekend in a DEIS school.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire

    Fair enough, DEIS schools don't have to rely on parents' funding. But there's no doubt the books at the Dept of Education look better than they should be due to the contributions from parents in running schools.

    It is a strange time we're living in regarding labour shortages in the economy and the resultant inflationary pressures on cost of living and wages. Hard to predict where it will end, but if there is a dramatic crash like 2008, you could see a lot of these professionals return to teaching to ride out the incoming storm.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭Treppen

    The topic is AP1 / AP2 btw Salonfire. But nice try to pretend to engage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭Bobtheman

    The grounds for appeal are not that great

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭Treppen

    Ya I get the impression the only way an appeal is any good is if the post wasn't advertised correctly etc.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra

    Calculation errors are mentioned too.......

    The scoping of these jobs is all over the place too, one person painting murals another running SEN.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭Treppen

    Nuts the way some schools can assign SEN as AP1 , but others ask teachers with full timetables and no qualifications to do co-ordinator.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout

    The seventh one on the list is the only realistic way of appealing. I've done it successfully. All the rest of them are basic procedural ones, and while it's possible a mistake could be made on one of them like a calculation error, the panel would have to be awfully stupid not to check their arithmetic or to have at least one woman and one man on the interview panel.

    All candidates have to be asked the same leading questions, and the questions have to be related to the four domains. I did an interview which was rigged a few years ago and it was an absolute shitshow in what I was asked, and we were all asked different questions.

    Incidentally I went for an AP1 a couple of weeks ago, and again didn't get it. Have sent in my appeal.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra

    I find that ridiculous too, our has a few hours on a timetable and a post to boot. And it's still not right in a small school. Whereas others are year heads on top of full classes and all the corresponding corrections and planning.

    These roles should be correctly defined and not just random based on whatever nonsense has developed, generally due to personal relationships.

    I find most principals seem to read the part about staff in managing the organisation as mind an inner circle who generally make everyone else life harder and ignore the wellbeing of staff actually teaching 21'20.

    Id love a blind test, interview panel with the principal, I interview panel without....same candidates same questions, they should both come out with the same list, all things being equal!

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Random sample

    Posts filled in our school this week. Out of 4, I would have agreed with 3.

    There is such bad feeling on the staff in general though. Older staff feel shafted when overlooked for younger teachers, younger teachers looking at the older teachers who got a post thinking they are more au fait with laos and more deserving. Nobody is happy. I don’t know what the solution is.

  • Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭noplacehere

    It’s a mess. Interviews recently here too and everyone who didn’t get it is resentful be they young or old. The one universal feeling is that unless you are doing whatever buzz word the panel want at that time, anything else you are doing will be disregarded.

    If anything I think LAOS has done more damage to goodwill and extra curricular than any other initiative. Staff won’t get involved in musicals or teams etc if they can form a committee that gets them more credit. And everyone wants ‘their own’ initiative not one that’s in place because it doesn’t look as good. Never mind the farcical position where two teachers claimed in interview to do the same thing….

    I don’t know what the best way is but I hate this. And I say this as someone who has no intention of going for a post but someone watching others.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Random sample

    If people are genuinely collaborating on work and the interview panel wants I not We, it’s very possible that neither of them are lying. That’s another issue with the current system. Nobody wants to work together and then have someone else take credit. All the while we are expected to collaborate.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,836 ✭✭✭amacca

    Yeah it's silly and quite divisive at times....I think people are right to vote their feet and disengage rather than jump through the nonsense "leadership" hoops

    Feels like the powers that be gifting the locals some shiny beads for giving up what's really important at times and more subtle divide and conquer....and as far as I can see the prevailing definition for leadership is doormat.

    If it had more value and wasnt detrimental to the school community and what I consider actual education to be it wouldn't be so bad but its just badly transposing an ineffective ideology into a setting where it will probably do more harm than good.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭Bobtheman

    The man issue is that genuine class teachers who focus on teaching get no credit for that.. So it goes to those doing various bullshit initiatives during class.

    A gal in our place did SFA for years then did an wxxx week. Got on BOM.

    Now has bullshit post.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Icsics

    It’s the same fo P & DP positions, the more made up stuff u have the better, more often than not had very little to do with education

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout

    Teachers elect teachers onto the BOM, so not sure how that was as a result of whatever initiative she did.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Icsics

    They probably counted her BOM as ‘management experience’ & she got points in the interview

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭Bobtheman

    You see the last ten years people leaping onto BOM. She did have a mandate indeed but never bothered much with the Asti up to then.

    Nor spoke up about any issue.

    In the end careerists on the bom are never going to speak up.

    What is disappointing really is the waste of posts. Wellness and other social engineering stunts

    Posts really now have little to do with academic improvement or discipline.

    I do appreciate people have no choice in what post they are assigned