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AP1 and AP2 posts

  • 17-08-2021 1:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7 Elizam425


    Hi all,

    I have a few points in this post so bear with me.... ;)

    I was wondering if there are any sample application form online for an AP1 and AP2 post? There may be some posts coming up in my school and want to start the application form. I understand that the application form will follow the 4 domains from the LAOS document.

    Are there any professionals out there who help with the application form and interview process?

    Finally, any sample questions/tips or tricks?!

    Thanks in advance!



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭ LW2018


    The form for AP1 and AP2 are both the same. First few sections deal with personal information (degree / post in school / CPD / roles/responsibilities/functions you’ve been involved with in school… these just need to be listed.

    Then you’re into the main part whereby you have to provide examples of your leadership and management under the 4 domains (Leading Teaching and Learning, Managing the Organisation, Leading School Development and Developing Leadership Capacity). You can only use your personal example twice so read the examples of highly effective practice and work out where they best suit. Make use of the key buzz words (lead, communicate, enable, inspire, encourage, demonstrate, encompass, unlock leadership potential, support, listen, empower etc…). Say what you did and why it was needed and how it was effective and how you knew it was… and don’t be afraid to say what could have been better (being reflective). The form, from experience, takes longer than you may think… give it time! It’s the first impression. The same questions will be asked to all candidates as you’re interviewing for a position of leadership rather than a specific role.


    There are a few threads on here with sample questions etc. Hard to describe interviews really but questions about the needs and priorities of a school tend to be asked / how you know students are learning / scenarios and how you’d be able to deal with them and why / an initiative you brought in that didn’t work and when you knew it wasn’t working and what you did about that / leading people who are reluctant to change / promoting bits and pieces around the school or within your subject.

    I think the best experience is going for them and showing that you are interested. Ask for feedback regardless of success or not as this will help going forward in all cases. A point of feedback I received after getting an AP1 position really stood to me this year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Elizam425



    Yes, I've heard the form can take some time so was wondering if there were any application forms online so I could get started on it.

    Yes, I know but nerves keep putting me off, even though I've done a Management and Leadership course, so was hoping there may be someone out there who could coach me through the process.

    Thank you so much for your advice and feedback and congratulations on the AP1 position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ am_zarathustra


    Try sitting down and making a lost of everything you've done in the school first, the assign each to a domain, many will fit in more than one but hone on two good examples from each domain. Marks are equally awarded across the 4 so balance is important, being deadly at one but neglecting another can cost you the interview. This is the bulk of the application, I think a max of 400 words in each domain was the last limit

    Be honest about your flaws, all members of leadership have them so it's not a sign of weakness, awareness is key.

    As above be enthusiastic, it's a hard job on top of teaching, you'd want to start out energetic!

    Exactly as above too, I asked for feedback after my first interview, I took it seriously and worked on the domain that let me down and was successful the second time round. A willingness to take feedback, adapt and change is vital in anyone hoping to get things done in a school.

    And good luck!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭ Bobtheman


    Dont apply. Easier ways to make money and most of the posts today are bullshit.

    Don't sat you were not warned



  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭ ethical


    Be warned indeed!

    Some excellent candidates never get the Post due to the chronic cronyism,nepotism etc. Steer clear of some school governing bodies! They will not like it if you step on their toes and show them up for what they are and will undoubtedly hold it against you at interview.The interview score and appeals score will be massaged so as not to make them look anything but following procedure! Also be very aware of positions that come with the tag "equal opportunity employer" or "Canvassing will disqualify"

    Best of luck with your application but do not despair if at first you do not succeed,I did'nt but got there in the end.I laughed when I got my "score" from the Cowboy,I mean Chairman of the Interview Committee first time around as he didnt have a fcuking clue and just pulled some figures out of his ar*e. I stood by my principles and never veered off what I thought to be the correct way of doing things and I was rewarded when I was lucky enough to meet an interview panel that saw me for what I was and had similar beliefs and were impressed by my achievements against all the odds.

    As some contributors say there are easier ways of making money ,if that is what you want ! Posts can be rewarding but sometimes do not do what thet were set out to do.Bear in mind now also that what you do for the first year or two may change totally if there is a Post Review (which there is supposed to be regularly),something that can work in your favour also. You will find though that you will not make much/any money out of it! Great satisfaction though if you get a nice position! Good luck!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭ Bobtheman


    It's still my opinion that the principal will decide who he or she wants. This might vary in some schools but by and large I think it holds sway. The interview panel is a smoke screen

    I don't know the situation in an ETB. I'm talking secondary sector.

    I have seen some bizzare appointments in my own school and even more bizzare posts.

    To be fair a lot of good work gets done and it maximises your 9-4 earnings.

    Though it amazes me how you can pay someone 8k extra a year and they still clock out at 4pm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,061 ✭✭✭ Treppen


    Nothing wrong with clocking out at 4pm and going home to your family, plenty of managers in the private sector can earn over 100k and clock in and out using effective time management.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,267 ✭✭✭✭ rainbowtrout


    They get 4 hours off their timetable (in ETB sector anyway), so work for the post can be done in that time. Some will use their free classes, some will do the work at home in the evenings depending on the nature of the job.


    But you are correct on the panel being a smokescreen. Posts are coming up in my school in the next couple of months and I would say I have a better chance of winning the Euromillions than getting an A post. Just this week the principal emailed me to say that he's not sure that he can let me go on the inservice for my subject run by the PDST because I would be missing too much time. To clarify, this is for a pilot subject that he wanted brought in this year and asked me to teach. I know how nuts this all sounds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭ Bobtheman


    Hi rainbow it doesn't sound nuts at all. In the secondary sector no time allowance which is an anonomly.

    You are right a lot of post holders do work at home or during their classes. Free and non free

    You should be allowed go to an in service. That's a disgrace. But principals often say one thing about teaching and learning and do another.

    What really gets me over posts is the waste of some of them. Mindfulness and excessive posts for IT even though when you have an issue.. It's an external guy they get in.

    Discipline seems off the agenda completely. I recall about 15 years ago it was a big issue with the Asti and hanafin made some moves. Now it's all magically gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ am_zarathustra


    Discipline does seem to be gone, even under another guise like behavior management ect. We also have a lot of posts that are suspiciously close to the person's actual job and it's hard to see where the spec of their normal job (non teaching roles) ends and their post duties begins. But then the teacher with a full Irish timetable, probably without enough contact hours with each class will always struggle to do the "extra" needed to get a post despite probably being more valuable to education in the school.


    Tends to be a lot clearer with teaching staff when they are doing extra! I would like to see the breakdown of people with full teaching hours, no non teaching roles, who are successful in interview. Even if the interview isn't fixed, I'd imagine in a lot of schools you could work out who was being tipped for the next posts based on their timetables!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭ Bobtheman


    Resource teachers also have an advantage as they can better manage doing extra within their timetable.

    To be fair I doubt it's much different in the private sector. Favorites getting a job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,061 ✭✭✭ Treppen


    Why ? Cos resource teachers have an easy job and don't do 'real' teaching like the big boys do??

    BTW it's not called resource anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ am_zarathustra


    In fairness, LS is generally a tough role, very paperwork heavy too. There are other more opaque roles I'd have questions about. There are also fairly often a few teachers on 16/17 hours with no explanation as to why



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭ Bobtheman


    Call it whatever you like. You know what it is. Most teachers have a mix of normal plus resource classes but yes I think it's easier and a lot of resource teachers say so.

    If you are scheduled to have one kid then while that kid is doing work it frees you up to do other stuff like advance your career.

    I do know it's moved to smaller groups.

    It can be boring I admit that but nobody will convince me its as tough as 25 odd kids in a normal classroom.

    It is real teaching but it's easier. I never said it wasn't teaching



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭ History Queen


    Hi all, I have a post interview later this week, AP1. Definitely an underdog going in to it but want to do myself justice at least. Any hints/tips greatfully received!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭ lulublue22


    List everything you have done todate. Put each one into one of the four domains. Within the 4 domains are key targets link what you have done to as many targets as you can - each target has what I would call buzz words effective communication etc practice your answers using the buzz words. I used a little card for each domain ie leading teaching and learning - listed anything that would fit in there and then practised answers using buzz words - professional development , effective communication , collaboration etc etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭ History Queen




  • Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭ Random sample


    Has anyone got a good general answer on what would you do differently, when talking about a team project that has worked well? I don’t want to just say we were happy with the outcome and I’d do it the same again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ am_zarathustra


    Depends on the type of project, maybe setting clearer objectives, clear roles and responsibilities, having stricter timelines on actions, meeting for less time but more often? They are the standard ways to make teamwork more effective. I'd also be fairly honest about how you behave in group settings, it's hard to modulate your own desire or lack of to get something done. My biggest would be just doing all the work, then I knoww it's done but that's not actually helpful to the running of a school because I could be gone in the morning and then none of those initiatives would continue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭ 2011abc


    Leading Learning and Teaching

    Managing the school

    Leading Development

    Developing leadership


    are the four headings but you already prob knew that .


    Presumably bought from this individual

    https://www.teachertoolkit.co.uk/about/

    who was touting them years ago


    You need two or three examples of what YOU have done for each .Stick them in your phone notes and memorise them inside out , reading them constantly when on the toilet ,in the car park etc etc .You WILL forget them under pressure if not learned inside out!


    Key themes might be 'consulted with students and staff' /committees you were on /X years wide range of experiences /a time you collated data and acted on it /work with gifted and talented or SEN students /an outcome you delivered /strategy you devised /some reconcilatory event


    Yep they love 'gathered info /data -consulted-devised strategy-implemented it '


    Feel free to ignore above as I have gracefully opted out of the 'post' rat race as I see my former STUDENTS promoted above me .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭ History Queen


    Just to update, I was unsuccessful. Feedback given was that I came across as arrogant, feedback from my last interview was that I didn't seem confident. Hard to know what way to take that. Obviously i can't "talk the talk", not in the way they want me to anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭ Random sample


    sorry to hear that. If it’s any consolation I can not talk the talk either. In the days after my interview I had a steady stream of realisations about the questions I was asked.

    its disheartening, in the average school these things don’t come up very often. I feel I will have forgotten any lessons I have learned by the time it comes up again. The current cohort of post holders in my school are early 50s, and I don’t think any have aspirations towards senior management, so there won’t be posts again for a long time and I feel there will be a lot more competent younger staff going for them then too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,061 ✭✭✭ Treppen


    Sorry to hear that, honestly.... after a few days of reflection you'll take it as a blessing in disguise.

    Similar happened although I was lucky enough to know it was a foregone conclusion when the successful candidate got different questions and was being prepped well by other APs. Now I'm delighted I can just go in and teach ,no more, no less. No lunchtime meetings and delegating down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭ Grueller


    40% paye, 6.5% superannuation, 4.5% prsi, either 4.5% or 8% USC (dependent on position on payscale) and 10% ASC.

    That's either 65.5% or 69% in deductions.

    €8520 x 34.5% = €2939

    €2939 left in your hand. Less than €60 per week. I know that there are 4 hours off also but jaysus that is a joke. With the wrong principal that could be worse than slavery. I can do one relief milking per week and pocket €50 cash for 2 hours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭ Icsics


    History Queen, like the others said, when the dust settles you’ll see this as a blessing. Posts are just not worth the hassle. We have a P & DP who never had a post, just straight in to senior mgt, but that’s another story!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭ lulublue22


    Not sure that qualifies as feedback ???? IMO that’s someone being a jackass - feedback in my book would be in terms of areas ( within the domain) that need some work🤷‍♀️ One persons arrogance is another’s assertiveness. If that’s the carry on - not confident enough / too arrogant you are better off not having to work with them. Feckin cheek really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,267 ✭✭✭✭ rainbowtrout


    That was grounds for an appeal straight away. All candidates are supposed to get the same questions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,061 ✭✭✭ Treppen


    Naaa I'm grand, glad I didn't get it now. I think we know the way appeals go when you can't prove anything.



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