AP1 and AP2 posts

Not cynical at all Random Sample, more realistic I’d say! I’d go further, these posts are in the gift of the Principal & the interview is a smokescreen to protect them!

You should be assigning the posts yourselves, based on the circular. Staff meet, decide on the list and then a small group of staff discuss this further to choose what roles are vital. Should be done every 2/3 years. A lot of schools don't seem to be doing this, in fairness we had to push to get it in ours but it's clearly outlined and I'd imagine an inspector would have issue with it not being done.

Would many on here have taken part in these meetings?

Getting tutors to do the phoning home is a bit of a tricky one. I wouldn't mind getting involved to support a student in times of need or if there was a sudden change in character or persistent absence. But that's relatively rare in our school.

I could imagine a tutor being run ragged in other schools , but to introduce paperwork into the mix is a bit of an ask.

Really though at every level everyone is being taken for granted.

Just thinking about it the other day , a principal on 100k sounds like a lot but really any managerial position with up to 40 staff reporting into you and dealing with 500+ other customers.... and their parents.

I saw an article in the journal.ie about a software engineer on €233k . Now, Leaving aside the level of unique skills he has, I was most struck by the "fair play to him" comments strewn through the comments. https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/how-i-spend-my-money-51-5641046-Jan2022/

compare that with the previous experience of a teacher on €40k and commenters were making out she was robbing their "taxpayer money" out of their pockets.

AP1 post with an extra 8k per year is really a pittance when you consider it's the only promotion allowable to bring you to the peek of your career (apart from becoming the Minister for Education lol!).

We had a number of AP1 & AP2 posts going up last year and this year because of a large number of retirements and huge increase in student numbers. Im talking at least five AP1 and 8-9 AP2. Im in the teaching game a fair while now and without tooting my horn too much I know I could have nabbed a role. Lot of experience, lot of extra activities and committees on boards in my time in the school, and im pretty good at talking sh1te :P Its a bit strange seeing much younger staff take posts and positions higher than you, but I wish them all the best. I have made a conscious decision, that as a father to young children, im putting more value into my free time to spend with them rather than extra money. I genuinely feel its the right decision for now. Maybe when they get older, i may look again at postings. But for now, I do my bit, teach my classes. Be there and raise my own kids. Make memories.

Most interviews are fixed. It's a farce. There has to be a different way

There is another way.

Don't go for interview.

Deliver pizza for 2-3 hours a week.

Maybe summer invigilation.

You'll get more thanks & more money.

Weird comments but I got similar in interview, comments about being confident and people finding that off-putting. Strange comment in my mind to make, an interview is hardly the place to undersell yourself! Seems like an odd idea to have permiated so many schools without it coming from somewhere!

Probably at some dumbass management course . If you wish to turn an applicant down without fear of an appeal just use the words arrogant or over-confident.

How childish and unprofessional is that to be putting down someone's confidence in a profession which is all about presenting yourself to people.

At this stage if you're looking around at the other interview applicants and you don't know who the sucker is... then it's you.

Asking for a friend. In an ETB what input does the principal have to the awarding of posts. He doesn't take part in the interviews and says it's nothing to do with him but is that correct? Do they really have no say - can they excuse themselves entirely? To me, I work in private sector, that seems insane. Surely they know the candidates better than anyone. My friend has been for a number of interviews in the last couple of years - for AP1 and 2 roles, is frequently told they're first on the panel but never gets the post. It always goes to someone younger they finished ahead of on the panel the previous time. The last feedback was they'd done a great interview, had the right experience and would be great at the role....but they're giving it to someone else and won't discuss why.

Sorry I might be mixing something up here but it’s a competence based interview isn’t it? Years and years of experience will help but it has to be the right type of experience and you need to be able to talk the talk in there.

I got mine with very little teaching experience and ahead of people who were teaching for 20+ years. The experience they had didn’t really fit the four domains and they didn’t interview well.

What? I’m not sure what Q E D means but something to do with me proving the previous argument?

Just because staff are older and have more years experience does not mean they’re competent. I have worked with older teachers who are terrible in an organisational sense.

The old system based on seniority was a complete joke. Teachers in AP1 and AP2 posts who couldn’t give a toss about them and just managed to pick them up along the way in their career. Seniority was done away with for a reason and rightly so. That’s not a blanket statement for all older teachers, some of them are fantastic. Just so happens some younger teachers are too (not talking about myself).

I’m not denying that people have been wronged, and I’m not denying that the system can’t be rigged. What I’m saying is there are plenty of young teachers who are indeed more capable than those with years and years of experience. This is a fact.

I know teachers with 20 years experience that wouldnt organise a piss-up in a brewery, is it fair then that they should get a head start in an interview? We all know the answer.

People will be wronged in interviews, young or old. The current system is the fairest.

That’s a fair point actually. Ap1’s in my school are all filled by people who have no interest in senior management so when we have vacancies at that level it is outsiders or people with no experience who get them.

i don’t understand what you mean by the panel. My school advertise when their is a vacancy and the vacancy is filled. There is never a panel. I think there used to be a panel when there were temporary posts cropping up for maternity leaves or sick leaves, but now, there are new interviews whenever there are vacancies.

Now, I'm confused. I was told in effect to be more assertive/confident/cocky. I went for my first AP1 interview recently, more for the experience and to signal to the principal that I was, eh, "hungry" and to bear me in mind for positions. I didn't get it and when I spoke to one of the external principals on the panel for feedback, he gave out to me for not selling myself.

I explained that I didn't want to be blowing my trumpet because I assumed the principal, who was on the panel, would tell the rest of them. But this, he made very, very clear, was a wrong assumption because unless you say it in the interview itself they can't mark you as 100% of the marks go for what you say in the interview. He said if the principal did say anything in defence of a candidate the other interviewers would bring him up on his partiality. Every day's a school day!

It was well-worth doing the interview and getting that feedback even if I had to wear a suit. I applied for an AP2 the following week and got that and to be honest that suits my situation at the moment better.