United Ireland Poll - please vote

A state that murders civilians and assists terrorism in murdering civilians, rigged elections were Catholics couldn't vote, said it was. We accepted because it was convenient for FF/FG.

Epic fail in basic historical facts

Partition and the creation of NI arose via the Government of Ireland Ireland 1920, which the South Rejected.

Nothing to do with the Anglo Irish Treaty of December 1921 , which came into effect in December 1922, which went beyond mere Home Rule , which NI got in 1920

Northern Ireland came into existence on 3 May 1921. The Tan War was still going on in the South

Naturally, the Treaty was not going to go back on a status (Existence of NI) that had already being established, especially since the Treaty removed the South out of the UK itself.

The public had enough time to digest the arguments over the merit and demerit of the Treaty when they were called to vote in the spring of 1922. They overwhelmingly supported the Treaty and the TDs who voted for it .

By the summer of 1922, the South were too busy bating the daylights out of each other, in areas that saw little fighting during the Tan War , and you can be damn sure, that barely anyone, not even the TD's during December 1921 - January 1922 talked very much about the North or the continuation of the 1920 partition!!

Remarkable, despite the amount of time that history lessons from Primary to Secondary School is spent on the period of 1916-1940; despite all the books, despite all the documentaries, despite all the archive papers etc , you and maybe like you still can not even get the most basic facts in order ...........

So it wasn't an issue, the North, for FF/FG after their terrorist facist beginnings?

I'm anti cronyism, fraud,mass baby graves, yes.

I'm not the PIRA.

You go on and defend the state terrorists and murderers you like.

What ? You even understand the words that you are using ?

Here is what you original said - which Mark Daly responded to

"A state that murders civilians and assists terrorism in murdering civilians, rigged elections were Catholics couldn't vote, said it was. We accepted because it was convenient for FF/FG."

Just stop here for a second. GFA was supported by EVERY POLITICAL AND SOCIAL GROUP IN the UK of GB and NI and in Ireland, and had pretty much majority support from nations like the US . The only political groups to oppose it were the DUP and TUV.

The public on both sides of this border not only came out in huge numbers but also voted predominately in favour of GFA - They were fed up of the violence. A few months later in 1998, Omagah happened. Despite that, the vast majority of the public were hell bent in making sure that GFA worked !

Terrorist facist beginnings?

WOW. Pretty difficult to claim that the Dail Army, ie the IRA , were terrorists when they had a political mandate to carrying out military action. They just didn't read the memo as to how war was to be conducted. Auxies were content with taking pot shots at the public and burning down towns and businesses. The Army Generals admitted that Rules of War could be ignored as they didn't see the campaign as a normal war.

I am very sure that the IRA never forced the public to let them use their homes and land to shelter. If they were known to tout to the RIC and other Crown forces, that was going to be a problem, yes, but they got advanced warning about that .

While always developing, there was nothing facist or remotely far right about the political theories of Sinn Féin in 1919-1926 - hint neither FF or FG existed . Sure the Church declared that the new FF were a bunch of Commies lol - and to be fair, Dev was talking about a lot of socialist stuff in 1927 . Bunreacht na hÉireann pees on any claim of FF's love of facism or authoritarianism (said Constitution making it almost impossible to create martial law )

Adding to both of the highligted statements raised by you - none of which are relevant

Mass baby graves........Christ.........the Provo's were good at making them too. Some of them are so well hidden that no one knows where the people of all ages are buried.

Fraud? Good Republic Tom Slab Murphy and his diesel running's or the Provo's taking over drug gangs ..................lol

Not Provo ? Could have fooled anyone with the apologist tone (whether intended or not)

Was it ? It takes a lot of threats and pressure to be forced to sign something and claim that your own free will was completely destroyed and that you had no real ability to use your own mental capacity to think for yourself and look at the pros and cons and still make a decision. ie WHAT LEGALLY CONSTITUTES DURESS

Do you know what the actual terms of negotiations were for the June 1921 negotiations ? It was explicitly clear in the terms of reference that there would be NO Republic , no leaving the Empire .

Arthur Griffith was rather content in signing and saw more positives that negatives.

Dev himself had dreamed with Document No 2 which was not entirely different to what was on offer in the Treaty . He knew that a Republic was unlikely. He and Collins knew that the IRA could never beat the British through war

Collins could have refused to sign , but he allowed himself to look at all the outcomes and scenarios and viewed that the Treaty was the better option. The Customs House attack and the strengthening of Dublin Castle and the lack of ability to import arms and ammunition into the country was making it incredibly hard to keep the military campaign going. Dev and Collins were gagging for a Truce when it did come

Barton was the only guy to sign but later change his mind. How come the other men kept to their commitment to the Treaty while they were in the safe confines of their home ?

Do not make comments on a legal term (Duress) that you have proven to not understand . Pressure from Britain was not enough to prevent the men from deciding for themselves .

The Continuation of the war was always going to happen if the Truce and treaty negotiations were to break down. The war would have continued if the Truce was never called for in the first place (Dublin Castle had earlier sought discussions with Dev and he rejected them) Custom House attack made Collins and Dev change their minds.

It is one thing to have to listen to historically inaccurate views, it is another thing altogether to be listening to people who don't understand the law , talking about what is valid or not . FFS

Getting splinters scraping that barrel? Your opinion is only as valid as mine.

You've only a time limit when it suits you.

You asked for modern. I gave you modern. Now you are twisting asking what it has to do with hundreds of years ago. The usual dishonesty.

You Can continue to defend the BA all you like. Its boring at this stage. You can't discuss the North without defending the British and demeaning the civilians and Irish culture. No worries, away you go.