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United Ireland Poll - please vote

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭ tinytobe


    A democratic referendum would have to be the basis of this.

    I think ultimately Ireland will unite at some point, it's more only a question when this is going to happen rather than if. May it'll be 10 years, may it'll be 20 years, I don't know.

    It's just a logical result out of Brexit. And when it happens, I hope it will all be peaceful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭ BringingSexyBack


    The point was utter nonsense - no offence

    Did you even understand the point that you tried to make ? Does not look like it . It is evident that you do not have a scooby doo as to what goes on with TD's when they are canvassing for business to come to their door step either

    Your latest claim is very naive .



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    The claim was made that Ulster would suffer under a UI because any new industry or business would be shifted to Dublin.

    I'm saying thats nonsense.

    I don't know where your comments fit in there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭ tinytobe


    The possible re-unification of Ireland between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland is a completely different matter.

    For starters, Germany was always one country, not really settled upon by force or "planted in" by another next door nation. Germany was only partitioned because of WW2 and because the occupying forces had different economic systems and it was soon obvious that the one system would be more prosperous than the other one. Once communism in Russia collapsed it was clear that reunification of Germany would be the logical result of that. In the end you are looking at a German partition only from 1945 to 1989 and a reunification shortly later on where real borders went up in the early 60ies when the wall was built in Berlin.

    In Ireland the matter of Northern Ireland is historically very long, you're going back in time to the plantation, to Oliver Cromwell, to the English civil war, if you want to, - and even further back, thus Irish partition is way way stronger and longer rooted in history. Thus it's way more difficult to resolve. There are cultural as well as religious obstacles, in Germany it was only that one "economic system", the one in the east collapsed and one occupying force ran out of money and the rest just took more or less it's natural course of things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭ FullyComp



    More relevant examples would be the Unification of Syria and Egypt and the United Arab Republic

    The closest parallel in Europe at the moment is probably Moldova and Romania (in fact you could argue both these are majority ethnic Romanian so would actually be closer in some ways than Ireland where we have two distinct peoples, each a majority in their relevant jurisdiction).


    Germany is completely different, it was hardly ever really separated.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    You're only needing go back a hundred years. Are you suggesting Ireland was never Ireland? Ulster and Connaught never part of Ireland?

    You are also using an illegal undemocraticly created gerrymandered portion of Ulster, to claim its not part of the rest of Ulster.

    Doesn't hold water.

    Germany was overrun and Russia held on to the East. Very similar, not identical, but similar.

    Religion only comes into it when people are oppressed because of their religion. Thats mostly what NI was but somehow that was okay for generations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭ BringingSexyBack


    What ? Are you taking the piss ?

    No such claim was made that Ulster would suffer under a UI . NO ONE . In fact, it was claimed that cities like Cork , Limerick and Galway would suffer as Derry and Newry along with Belfast getting Second City Status who be kicked to the end of the que while the South panders to basket cases that are NI cities

    For a start, no one seriously wants to go near Ulster to invest

    Learn to read and comprehend or jog on. It is of no coincidence that another poster has highlighted your ability to twist what was said .

    This is ridiculous . But fair due, you proved that you did not even understand what you said .


    This is your original statement

    "Why? There'll be jobs for 'our own' coming out their ears. Committee on reconciliation, boards to see the change over. A new board of health, Public works. There'll be plenty of our tax and EU money to go around the cronies. Also I'd imagine the same civil servants will be needed.

    Politicans try get business for their areas. Nobody tells a politician trying to get a factory in cork moved to Dublin ffs."

    You explain how there will be "jabs" coming out for their ears during recessions ? How can anyone justify 200 plus TDs in a country under 6 million ? Both sides of the border have blotted civil services

    Days of getting large chests of EU lolly are over, baby!

    The laughable part was the last line.....................as I already pointed out, swing a Ministerial job before a TD, they will soon forget their obligations for their areas when a crunch vote is required (unless, it is advantageous to lose the party whip eg Denis Naughton in 2011)



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭ FullyComp


    Very true on the investment point. Before Brexit there was very little regulatory difference between investing in the North or in the Republic beyond the Republic being far more expensive.

    In a UI what would be different? Before Brexit the UK was happy to cut sweetheart deals and you had full access to the EU market yet NI was not seen as a good bet. Maybe this is something everyone in Stormont should consider.



  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭ tinytobe


    I am not suggesting, you're interpreting.

    Ulster and Northern Ireland, for instance are not congruent, - 3 counties of Ulster are actually part of the Republic, but I am sure you know that anyway.

    Russia and the Russians only had Russian military in East Germany, - the used the barracks the Nazis built, - mostly at least. What they didn't do is take farmland from Germans and gave it to Russian settlers in a system of plantation. Russia's interest was military and ideological, farming was collectivized under communism and ownership not allowed or not encouraged, but only for ideological reasons of communism, not to give the land to Russians instead.

    The border between the two German states was hermetically sealed with electrical wiring of high voltage and automatic shotguns triggered by the minutest movements, preventing any travel from East to West and preventing East Germans from fleeing to the West, - East Germany was like a prison system with a tiny bit of freedom to walk in plein air.

    The British were never into that, like imposing communism on Northern Ireland, or preventing citizens to leave. Border checks were there as far as I remember but one could have left, patience and long wait times included.

    A comparison better suited to the situation in Northen Ireland would be South Tyrol especially during WW2, Italian fascism and later on, during the 1960ies and 1970ies. Plantation of Italians and Italian speaking people in the cities of Bozen and Meran and forcing German speaking Tyrolean to give up farms and jobs and leave their land...... The matter is largely resolved today, also thanks to the EU and both countries being part of the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    Will Cork , Galway and Limerick be prepared to be second fiddle to Derry and Newry ? One assumes and expects that Belfast would be the Second city . And what of Dublin ? Will they be keen on being told to hold back and let Belfast campaign for contracts and big business to go their way ? Hardly

    We have business outside of Dublin.

    We will not be forced to behave any differently. Belfast, Newry and Mallow will be equally represented. You are throwing up complete nonsense IMO.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    The country was divided on the basis of land and money. Religion was the back of it and used to control one side over another, but money, land and power of control were the key reasons.

    Ulster was a province on the island of Ireland? You accept that surely? It is now divided and partially under foreign jurisdiction.

    This is where we can compare, somewhat, to Germany.



  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭ tinytobe



    Post edited by tinytobe on


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,936 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    Google all the factories not in Dublin and cop yourself on with your scaremongering.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,936 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,936 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭ Dickie10


    if there were a border poll and UI got the vote, surely there would be another referedum needed in ROI, what reaction would there be if the population of the south voted no to a UI? I can only imagine how toxic the atmoshphere would be between catholics in NI and ROI. another thing is anyone in the ROI who is not in favour of a UI are they a unionist?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭ Dickie10





  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    The point was we already have business operating outside Dublin. You wanted proof. You got it. I suspect you jumped in before you were aware to the conversation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,140 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    Northern Ireland is not an illegal entity. We all know this, yet you repeat the lie again and again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,936 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    Lies are the only form of currency that are traded by those who favour a united Ireland in the short term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭ Brucie Bonus


    I don't actually. The people of Ulster weren't consulted. They gerrymandered electoral districts. They denied Catholics the vote. Its legal because Britain said it was and FF/FG accepted it. Its as legal as the BA murdering civilians and assisting terrorists murder civilians.

    You talk like everything and everyone on the British side was beyond reproach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭ FullyComp



    Most of this stuff stopped 50 years ago at this point? Why are you still fighting about it now? Think you should get two votes to make up lost time?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,936 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    What has gerrymandering of local electoral constituencies in the 1950s got in any way to do with the democratic legitimacy of partition?

    The people of Northern Ireland also voted in 1974 to accept partition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭ BringingSexyBack


    Even a half wit would understand that the poster clearly and correctly was pointing out that Ireland was never a 32 county sovereign nation (or anything close) , totally free from England.

    No comparison whatsoever to Germany .



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭ BringingSexyBack


    Respectively, You still haven't a clue ! This was proven in earlier posts and it is beyond doubt now. You genuinely do not really understand or know what you are saying .

    People like you who have no experience or knowledge of business, trade, and politics , really should be sitting down and STFU and stop embarrassing yourselves.

    You had to resort to blatant distortion to save face in the previous post.

    The vast majority of business and industry in this country is in Dublin and the commuter belts of Kildare . IT , pharama etc

    Proper business that is ! Cork has Pzifer , Limerick had (past tense) Dell, now have nothing ..........................

    All the major industries and banks have GHQ in DUBLIN

    THe second last sentence about not having to behave any differently is cute. How on earth did you put Mallow in the same sentence as Belfast and Newry ?

    Please stop waffling. People did not realise that this was comedy section . At least actually back up your argument with facts . Your statements are already devoid of any credibility, so bald claims like that do not amount to much



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭ BringingSexyBack


    Ulster has ALWAYS been divided in terms of culture, religion and nationality . You have to go back to myths before you hear about a United Ulster of one people - even in the days of the Gaels, Ulster was sub divided into sects .

    Who thought you history ? FFS lol This really is not funny anymore.

    Nothing remotely comparable to Germany.

    Your knowledge and understanding of Irish history is shoddy enough so I don't expect you to understand much about ze Germans . You do know that Germany as a Nation State existed before World War 1 , right ? Good grief .



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,936 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    Have you not been sold the legend that was Brian Boru who ruled all of Ireland until those nasty Brits took it from him?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,140 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    They were actually.

    Stormont voted to cede from the Free State and rejoin the Union.

    We voted to accept the GFA which accepted that NI is part of the UK.

    It's legal because Ireland, the UK, the UN and every other institution that is worth their salt accepts it.

    Just because some armchair 'up da ra' Republican shouts and roars about 'da brits' every now and again does not make up for those incontrovertible facts.



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