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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭ copeyhagen

    Dude, he always raises some very good points, and has 6 million subscribers!

  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ ohnohedidnt

    Okay, maybe we have different definitions of perfectly safe, because the Government labelled both Pandemrix and the Covid vaccines as "perfectly safe", despite being aware than Pandemrix hadn't finished trials and had caused issues previously, so perfectly safe is probably just something they say when they really want you to take it.

    There's a lot of material from the WEF about corporations being involved in governance, but you're trying to put words in my mouth by saying "control governance", that's not unexpected, that's how you guys operate on this thread, so just clarifying.

    "When states were the overwhelmingly dominant actors on the world stage and major policy decisions were commonly decided by a limited number of them, progress on international cooperation tended to be measured by the establishment of new intergovernmental legal frameworks and institutions. But the Global Redesign proposals suggest that efforts today to strengthen international cooperation will increasingly need to have a wider focus and apply multiple tools: creating new international law and institutions; upgrading the mandate and capacity of existing international institutions; integrating non-governmental expertise into the formulation of policy frameworks, be they formal (legal) or informal (voluntary or public-private); and integrating nongovernmental resources into policy implementation

    The state-based core of the system needs to be adapted to a more complex, bottom-up world in which nongovernmental actors have become a more significant force. But what is also required is a corresponding sense of ownership in the health of the international system by these very non-state stakeholders, which until now have tended, with the notable exception of certain NGOs, to leave such matters entirely to their national governments."

    Since we're on the subject I just came across this video from 2 days ago that some people on here might find funny.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,826 ✭✭✭✭ charlie14

    Why would some people, and especially governments not want to see more people availing of vaccines ?

    They are a much more inexpensive way of dealing with a health problem than hospitalisation and have proven so over the years. They have also lowered the mortality rates for various diseases since they were first developed. Governments have been encouraging their populations worldwide long before this pandemic to avail of flu vaccines which have shown that they reduce the risks of serious illness or death, so why the conspiracy theories over them now ?

    Is it not more the case that rather than most people and governments recognising the value of vaccines, there are some who have always been anti vaccines for a whole hodge podge of often laughable reasons, who have now jumped up on the bandwagon with their loudspeakers hoping to convert more to their anti vaccine nonsense that they have nothing to back up other than whatever idea is rattling around in their heads on that particular day. Nonsense that as soon as it is exposed as such they will then like magpies grab on to the next shiny idea from some media grifting wannabees who like themselves will not answer any questions but bounce on to their next theory like fleas on a hotplate ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭ generic_throwaway

    I'd share your suspicion of major corporations having heavy involvement in government. Corporations, especially PLCs, are essentially psychopaths unless they are run by very ethical people at the top (and even then can have parts of the org getting up to shenanigans).

    However, the good news is that we are not going to have Pfizer or Tesla in government here any time soon. And that's not going to change without a referendum.

    Of more immediate concern is the power of lobbyists - maybe not so much at national level here, but certainly at EU level, and in the USA.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao

    So you’re completely anti-vax and have gone quite far down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. So of you were in government with a health system already heaving at the seams, and a pandemic comes along, and extremely safe vaccines were developed (compared to getting the virus), what would you do?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,826 ✭✭✭✭ charlie14

    If you are worried about corporations being involved in pushing their agendas you might want to take a look at some other publications. A good place to start would be with the financiers of the Great Barrington Declaration (which advocated the "let it rip" herd immunity discredited theory), the American Institute for Economic Research and their associate libertarian so called think tanks around the world and read some of their publications and check out the deep pockets that fund them. One of their statements to back up their particular bullshit from their grandly titled "Resident Fellow" is that no matter where in the world it strikes, the spread of Covid-19 drops to practically zero after 70 days.

  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ ohnohedidnt

    I agree with you. I'm not saying we will see it. All I said was that the WEF want more say in state governance for corporations, and they tried to use Covid to push it through, I didn't say it was a big conspiracy, I didn't say it would happed, it was just an example of an organization trying to use Covid to their advantage, just like many other organizations. Again, my whole point is that they are not big conspiracies. I happen to disagree with many people on here, so everyone wants to label me a conspiracy theorist so they can dismiss what I'm saying.

    The US is nuts, not just because of lobbyists, you have regulatory bodies funded by the corporations they're regulating, and legal insider trading by congress, the conflicts of interest are just beyond belief.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe

    Yes, you have a very different definition. Are you vaccinated?

    Gideon van Meijeren is an embarrassing loon who reproduces many of the tropes we get on this conspiracy forum. He's been discussed here before.

    As for the highlighted passage, what's the link and context? What is your actual concern? Be specific.

  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ ohnohedidnt

    I'm pro vaccine, I am fully vaccinated, my kids are vaccinated and my whole family will continue to get vaccinated.

    I would lie if I was in power too. I would do what is for the greater good, because that would be my job. Which is exactly why I'm a skeptic, because the job of government is to do what is for the greater good, not what is best for me and my family, that's my job.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe

    What "very good points" does he raise according to do? Of course he has millions of subscribers, Alex Jones had millions also. Conspiracy twaddle sells well, as mentioned, it's now a mini industry.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe

    Every. Single. Time.

    "Air travel is safe"

    Normal people: "Yup"

    "Vaccines are safe"

    Anti-vaxxers "HA 13 years ago there was a vaccine with a 1 in 18,000 chance of developing a condition, they aren't safe!!!"

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao

    Do you think the Irish government have being telling about the covid vaccine safety?

  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ ohnohedidnt

    How much more specific? I've stated my concerns. You specifically said no links, now you want links. This is why this thread is BS, you just keep repeating questions, until people give up, then claim victory, I guess you won this one to, I'm out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe

    I meant no link dumping which is : "read this 96 page document", or "watch this 4 hour video" (which happens a lot here)

    You quoted some passage, for which I have no context. It seems to be referring to international institutions (not governments), and appears to be advocating for more non-governmental input, which could be anything; NGO's, charities, research laboratories (nothing wrong with that)

    This is why I asked for specifics.

  • Registered Users Posts: 502 ✭✭✭ shillyshilly

    It's a bit naïve to think Scotland won't follow suit if the rest of the UK has, they relied on NI and Wales for support in measures, even they are looking to exit Covid measures.

    CTA has been open all along, I've had no bothers travelling the last 2 years

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,316 ✭✭✭ CQD

    Oh look, they were planning on vaccine passports to come in now even before the pandemic..

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao

    You’d want to be really stupid not to see the benefit of vaccine passports. They’re in use by many countries already to protect their population. Do you think the pandemic was created to implement the vaccine certs?

  • Subscribers Posts: 35,684 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat

    oh look, someone doesnt know what a "feasibility study" is :D

    what do you think the "union" in European Union means???

    Examine the feasibility of developing a common vaccination card/passport for EU citizens that is compatible with electronic immunisation information systems and recognised for use across borders, without duplicating work at national level.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,316 ✭✭✭ CQD

    There are none so blind as those who will not see..

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao

    “There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.”

    Yeah, you know that the pandemic wasn’t created to implement it, but are so deluded that you choose to ignore it 😉

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,477 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr

    Nope, the 1600's

    These bastards have been planning this for centuries!!

    "Consequently, there has also been a need for documents attesting that a person has completed quarantine or is otherwise known not to be infectious. Since the 1600s, various Italian states issued fedi di sanità to exempt their bearers from quarantine.[10]

    The International Certificate of Vaccination (Carte Jaune) is a certificate of vaccination and prophylaxis, not immunity. The document has remained largely unchanged since it was adopted by the International Sanitary Convention of 1944.[11] The certificate is most commonly associated with Yellow Fever, but it is also used to track vaccination against other illnesses."

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao

    Typical governments taking forever to get things done. At this rate the great reset won’t happen until at least 3419.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭ Bogwoppit

    I’ve had a vaccine passport for years, you need it to travel to many countries worldwide for diseases such as yellow fever.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,477 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr

    Yeah but the yearly trip from whatever small town to Dublin on December 8th never required one, that's why some of these lads are confused 🤷‍♂️🤣

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,826 ✭✭✭✭ charlie14

    You rightly say that the job of a government is to do what is for the greater good, but I do not see where the rest of your post make no logical sense.

    Surely if they have acted for the greater good, then the basis on which they have done so could be clearly seen by anyone other than those that believe a government (or in this case all governments) were involved in a conspiracy of lies.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe

    Scotland to lift most remaining restrictions

    Almost as if the restrictions are related to the virus..