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Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭BuildTheWall


    The problem lies with young impressionable girls who now think the idea of denying men basic human rights or discriminating against them by law is acceptable discourse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭amacca


    What do you think happens if no one reacts to ridiculous remarks or just let's them pass ? It is reality that the remark was made and no one on air remarked back or suggested it may not be helpful and perhaps the opposite of helpful



  • Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lads, come on. He was talking shite on the radio. This is not going to happen 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭amacca


    I don't think many think it's going to happen tbh


    I know I don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,039 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Somebody who is going to behave inappropriately..assault, harass, or worse isn’t doing it due to a lack of education… they are doing it because they are scumbags ….. no amount of hours in a classroom or in front of a PC clicking on an answer is going to cure or fix the ‘asshole’ gene.

    Around 700 people per month in the country get done for drink driving…every one of them has received education and passed a theory test….. so no a cert, test is going to be of fûck all use… scumbags are scumbags…unfortunately..



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  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People who spread this toxic white masculine ideology are white IME..

    There's too much interest in shutting down discussion and dismissing the concerns of other people. That, to me, is far more toxic than this supposed ideology that white male posters have.

    Discussion from all perspectives, along with disagreeing with those viewpoints is healthy. Categorising people just so that they can be dismissed isn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    All the publicity and campaigning in the world won't convince an abuser or rapist not to do so.

    100%

    Decent men don't need instructions on how to be civilised

    Scumbags won't listen to the instructions of how to be civilised.

    I seen messaging from government the responsibility is on all men.

    "Irish men must take “a lead role” in changing the culture of violence against women in society." according to Micheál Martin

    It's not, it's on our justice system and you Micheál, unless you want vigilantes roaming the streets



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭SunnySundays


    Any campaigning or discussion going on at the moment should be focused on:

    1. Greater jail sentences

    2. A limit of free legal ad, it shouldn't apply to persistent offenders

    3. Jail sentences should increase for repeat offenders, automatic 20% increase on time served if a further offence is committed

    4. Life should mean life for murder, rape, any sort of attack of children or the particularly vulnerable etc.

    5. Bail shouldn't apply to particularly haneious crimes

    This should serve a letter purpose that schooling the majority of men that don't need to be told.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    showing your age there, Mr C. As such you're likely to be categorised negatively by some. As am I !

    I have a twitter account, and for my own sanity I confine my activity there to asking the bank if certain services are available, or complaining to Irish Water about the colour of my tap water.

    It seems that's not enough to avoid the madness. As the OP said, if the demographic for this enlightened suggestion was any other, the Twitterati and RTE would be up in arms. Now, in the interests of full disclosure I don't listen to that show nowadays but nothing on it would surprise me - I used to listen to it. I think someone above said Brendan didn't agree with it. Thank God, he's not known for swimming against the tide.

    I truly believe that a lot of commentary at the moment, and I'm talking about TV , Radio and Newspaper commentary, is from people who feel a need to express their own personal revulsion publicly, as if their every utterance was of earth shattering importance. Most of them must be especially unqualified in dealing with societal problems/solutions and would be better off saying nothing rather than the first stupid thing that comes to mind when a mic is put in front of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I've just said that this ridiculous remark only represents media clickbait-mongers spitballing in the post you're replying to.

    I don't think it would come about.

    However we're supposed to allow it to stand as a part of public discourse and not say anything back for some reason. Pointing out what's wrong with it becomes a big deal which makes yourself and EmmetSpiceland very unhappy, why is that?

    Also why are men who speak up for themselves characterised as "angry". I don't feel angry, I'm having a nice relaxed Sunday.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Sam is highly respected. If no one responds to this shite then it becomes accepted wisdom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,710 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    "....you can't tar everyone with the same brush" only applies to minorities. Not my rule.

    Imagine if someone said in relation to Muslim paedophiles gangs in the UK that it was a cultural problem, that it starts in the home, the Muslims need to have lessons, that it's 'not nipped in the bud' when they are young, that it all started in Muslims youth, that bad behaviour by Muslims to girls in schools (the lower level) is connected to girl rape (the higher level), to use the rhetoric I'm hearing on the Brendan O'Connor show just now.

    And can I just say to mna na heireann, as a man I'm not responsible for the behaviour of your son. If you can't bring up your own son to be a decent human being I don't know how you can expect me to do it. And with that I've no intention of correcting either men I know or men I don't know.

    And finally, from my own experiences of low level harassment I've been subjected to both living in London and in an Irish town, every single one of those incidents were perpetrated by men of lower social class background. So that's really where the problems mostly lays, everyone knows it, but don't have the balls to say it. In my town in the last few years there's been a marked increase of lower social class youth and young adults hanging around the town in groups and additionally lower social class eastern Europeans drinking alcohol in the parks, on walkways, in come crevice they can find outdoors where they are partially hidden from view, and if the police can't clean that up which would go some way making people feels safer, including for myself, I sure as hell can't do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Btw where is the evidence that non-white men, either in Ireland or other places, would agree to onerous legislation and movement restrictions on men in general?

    I don't get what 'whiteness' has to do with this issue, can someone please explain it to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    No oc course men will not licence this is some crap talk on an a show. Of course they don't mean all men. Do they will need to say the word some. Maybe they thought we be intelligent enough yo know what they were. Will there be some who mean all unless a man has transcended yes but for the main they mean some.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,411 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    3 strikes and you should be in jail for any crime, needs properly to be hit on the head as a deterrent.



  • Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sam McConkey knows a lot about infectious diseases and **** all about anything else. Classic consultant thinking he can solve/save everything.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Youre asking people who think that there are far too many Gardai as it is, and that perpetrators of violent crime need more sympathy and less punishment to consider longer jail sentences?

    They would also have to admit that ignoring the negative consequences of the slow eradication of the nuclear family while insisting that one family set up is as good for kids as another isn’t working really.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That seems quite similar to most of the sentiment expressed by your "pathetic little white men" on this thread already.

    Apart from the victimhood thing. If a politician called for women to be kept at home to raise kids would it be ok for people to give out about it? Or, since it doesn't "come to pass" then is it just a complete non-issue?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭laoisgem


    You have a very dim view of young impressionable girls if that's your reasoning



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,774 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    All be forgotten in another few weeks. It's just the latest, virtue signalling hashtag from the permanently outraged.

    The real issue will remain untackled though like everything else before it until the next tragedy.



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  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, I've been thinking about all this since this all kicked off. Considering my circle of friends, how we interact with each other, and how women are treated or spoken of.

    My circle would be a very mixed group, a few more female friends than males, but we're all known to each other. In conversations, both online and offline, I can't really recall any sexist or demeaning discussions. We're all adults after all. Most of us are single, actively dating, but there's no sense of bitterness or anger over our experiences. Two of my friends are divorced, and while they have issues with their ex-spouses, they don't speak badly about women in general. I've seen them out in bars/clubs, with partners or solo (in a group of friends), and have never seen them disrespect women, or be aggressive. That's not to say that there aren't such guys out there, because I know there are... but they're not the kind of guys I would be friends with. It's not a type of behavior I favor myself.

    Additionally, I was thinking of my female friends, who do complain about their dates with guys, but generally, don't seem to have any real problems. They're not shrinking violets, being Irish women, who are more than capable of expressing their opinions is a rather forceful manner when it suits.

    TBH I do find the narratives being pushed these days as being disturbing. I'm a gentleman. I was raised mostly by my mother to be respectful towards women. I like being polite, and I have zero interest in the Lad culture crap, nor do I like any of the aggressive behaviors that come with certain groups.

    But the problem is that none of that matters. It doesn't matter that I haven't seen my male friends being dicks. It doesn't matter than I avoid being that way myself. It doesn't matter that I can't actually whistle nor wolf whistle. It doesn't matter that I'm not and never have been a violent person.

    Because the narrative being pushed these days is that men are responsible. I'm responsible for the behavior of other men. Even when I have no connection with violent or aggressive men, I am responsible for them. And irrespective of my own circumstances or personal history, I'm being represented by these other men.

    I know the statistics on male violence, but honestly, the majority of men in any population, do not engage in it. It is a minority of the overall male population that does... but we're now all on notice for being men. That men are violent. Men are a danger to women. Men.

    That's a genuine concern, because it affects how society views the place of men in that society. It does affect how culture changes over time. It affects the policy decisions of governments or public servants. It affects laws. It affects so much, including the basics of living anywhere... It's not hysteria. It's a genuine concern about how western society is shaping itself, and the perception that is being encouraged in viewing "men".

    There are plenty of people on this thread or elsewhere who will go out of their way to dismiss these concerns. Dismiss them, rather than engage and consider the practical consequences of the narrative at play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    There is a Pareto distribution when it comes to criminality - 5% of men commit 95% of violent crimes.

    The sentencing guidelines (ie legislation) are the weak link in our criminal justice system imo, not judges or Guards

    Funny how M Martin puts it back on ordinary people to change the "culture of violence" - what culture of violence? I never hit people or get into fights, ever. Do other boardsies?

    If you could somehow get in legislators who would target violent male criminals with constraining punishments that would be the best solution.

    Like a dog in a manger, Martin and his colleagues occupy the spaces that could be filled by effective legislators.

    Also can anyone explain how white males and non-white males differ in relation to this issue? Genuinely curious, I'm not understanding this part of it at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭martingriff




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭ressem


    The "something must change" chorus is getting enormous attention. But it's as non-achieving as all the other similar choruses.

    Like most hard problems there may not be a fix that is less harmful than that fixes consequences.

    So potential fixes: Might as well get the non starters stated and ruled out ASAP so as to leave discussion time and resources for society patches that might be less outlandish.

    Mandatory tracking on all people outside their home?

    McConkey's option. Applied to all people? Or just people that show signs of failure to socially mature to an acceptable level.

    (Properly done training has been claimed to reduce recidivism, 20% to 4% was mentioned in the paper today? Which is why the idea might appeal to an academic. Applied to all though might turn out to be as deficient as Irish language education / school PE; less than a youtube video.)

    Chastity belts for all. No cash nor jewellery nor pawnable possessions to be carried on foot. (including pricy footwear)

    Regulated (volunteer?) community watchpersons around towns and villages between 5am to 3 am, concentrating on amenity areas?

    A fast method of reporting attempted crimes that does not commit the reporting party to dealing with the police? Talking with colleagues, a high proportion are subjected to gurriers that make a attempt to mug / assault that fails. And as such, goes unreported.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,138 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm thrilled Pandemic news fading from the news cycle but mother of God, could Sam Mc Konkey find nothing better to do with his Sundays 🙄 christ all mighty when is this nonsense going to stop.

    VMN last night had a segment on "The Pandemic of Violence against Women, Calls for a Minister for Women and even the school slybus to be reviewed.

    I've been terrified to come out of my MAN Cave since this hysteria started 😳

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭amacca


    I think that sums up a lot of what I was thinking quite nicely.



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    While I appreciate that you're probably right, there will come a day, when enough momentum will have been built for change to occur. There will be people who will continue to seek change in the background, while the remainder of the population moves on.. and those people in the background will connect and merge with others with similar concerns.

    This has happened before with regards to things like the consent classes, demands for psychological tests of males in schools, etc. They came up, were ignored, and then within a decade later, started being implemented in limited scope at schools or other institutions. That's the nature of social change these days... and it will happen with the vast majority of people being unaware until it directly affects them, and they're not in a position to oppose it... because it's been tested, approved by "specialists" and/or politicians, and then implemented on a larger scale.

    For something as serious as this, we should be more attentive to what's going on. This is why people seek to dismiss concerns... because it allows their desired changes to happen in the background until it's too late to reasonably object.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭Feisar


    The only problem with life for rape is that the perpetrator is as well kill the victim after raping them.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    I suppose you have to understand where this is coming from, in terms of a new fledgling ideology/religion. It's the classic, wrong-headed 'blank slate' theory which suggests humans have no intrinsic behaviours. Violence, like gender, is incorrectly believed to be learned or absorbed by the society or family you are born into. The fact that people can be born with, or develop, deviant and psychopathic tendencies by genetic or biological accident is ignored.

    When I was growing up, several decades ago now, the most cowardly thing a boy could do is physically harm a girl. I'm sure most of us can clearly remember examples where boys who hit girls were kept at as much distance as possible. The old slur 'so when did you stop hitting your wife' is decades old and reflects an intolerance of violence against women.

    It's pretty distasteful to see a brutal murder exploited to advance a political ideology though, and a little embarrassing to see the talking heads genuflect in such cowardly ways.

    We're at the stage where this new religion/ideology is trying to establish itself so any public dissent will be severely punished by the zealots. Luckily you can usually spot them in their social media 'bio' before interacting with any of them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    The classic example of Blank Slate was the communist "New Man" , Nazism also had their version of a "New Man" . Do lefties never learn that you cant program people, there is always a new generation behind.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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