Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

I think I would have like to experience the 1984 movie in a cinema.

my view on both is similar to yours - I really enjoyed the 1984 and it had me doing the “pew-pew” laser guns as the credits rolled.

The 2021 didn’t leave me cold like it did you but it didn’t leave me wanting to fly around in a rocket ship either.

The world building also stands out more for me.

After Blade Runner 2049 Denis Villenue was added to list of proper who should have directed Star Wars in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Dune confirms this.

It does

It was quite jarring at first and I thought they should have left out the shields but later (and looking back on it) it was indeed something.

Where the shields in the new version visible when in use or when was an impact?

Sorry I didn’t mean to suggest you were impugning it.

I understood your comment about aging badly as the statement of fact it is - I just myself that a lot of VFX the same even in the 90s and 00s

I think I compared the VFX of Dune 1984 to the Star Wars trilogy myself when I posted about it. I said the same of Clash of the Titans.

It is hard to believe the VFX are from the same time. Kind of like my subconscious thought once ILM share the knowledge or something

I haven’t seen remastered TNG but saw the same those issues in the Kirk remasters. I forget them afterward but the mannequin corpse in The Naked Time is one.

I didn’t say it was confusing

because it isn’t

The "otherworldly helicopter" paragraph with the "SW for grown ups" - these two points are actually related I thought ha.

So obviously first of all, George Lucas literally copied Dune and reinvented it into space opera "easy watching" for the mass audience back then (i am a SW fan myself), literally everything in SW you can find traces from Dune (I think even Lucas admitted that at some point?) - but the genius in Lucas is that the guy really has his own visions on the SW world building (how alot of people slammed the prequels and now we would kill to have his visions put back into the new SW...). Denis's "SW for grown ups" is just the simplest term he used during interview etc since SW is very well known - the man is a Dune fan since he was 14yo so he didnt mean to offend or describe Dune in a lesser way - it was purely the easiest way to explain Dune to the mass audience.

And the "otherworldly helicopter with buttons" - this is something to do with the huge story/history in Dune - long story short, there is no super computer/AI in that future due to some historical wars (better not spoil here ha) - so everything we see in Dune is the (strange) future stuffs with reasons/history. There is nothing shiny or flashy in this future, humanity is advanced in a way without automations basically. Aesthetically, the future world is so bleak that they are in the extremes (industrial like Baron's world, or the more 'nature' Atreides planet), and things are made to be solely practical, with some known cultural stuffs left (chinese language, scottish bag pipe aha) - all these are Frank Herbert's version of 10/20 thousands years in the future.

I thought that's why Dune is regarded as THE sci-fi story - the books are so 'boring' to read because they are almost like...philosophy books lol - iirc so much on politics, socio-economical stuffs. The topics/ideas Frank Herbert touched are heavy on 'thought-provoking' - it is so strange to say that the series is too full of substance (spice) aha.

The point is that it is truly a feature that the man successfully adapted Dune in modern age in almost all aspects, while stays true to the source (not a straight forward story like SW etc), and also stomacable ('streamlined') for the casual viewers. Aesthetically I thought Denis nailed it so hard for Dune, with just an adequate amount of his interpretations on things like Sadaurkar is shown to be like some fanatics/religions in which it makes sense and it fits the lore.

SW is literally the fun 'space opera' suitable for all ages, effectively engineered for the mass audience, a rather simple (nice) hero's journey saving the world. While Dune literally everything in it is about life or death, in which they go into details of generations of politics and family issues contribute to the future of humanity - ya seems pretty 'grown up' to me. Ya SW is a product designed to sell to everyone, while Dune books...are not for kids I am sure ha.

I think futuristic etc aesthetics are rather subjective. For me, SW ships are mainly designed to look cool (to sell toys) while Dune ships aim to give that 'real' and practical feels - they fit to their own universes (and purposes), i think the team refers to the source Frank Herbert's Encyclopedia book for their designs. But ya, if i looked at Stargate, the high tech aliens look like old egypt gods that come with pyramid starship aha.

I don't think it is fair to compare SW ('movie original') vs Dune (books + adaptation), as we are touching a lot of different reasons/factors behind the productions/end products and their success/failure. I enjoy both for different reasons lol. Dune 1984 was a mess and it says a lot on how hard to adapt it to the big screen.

And not sure about Foundation vs Frank Herbert - Asimov wrote so many more books than Frank - both are legends. By legendary status obviously Asimov took it lol - Dune popularity is so high so ya the best selling sci-fi of all time? (personally Asimov is even harder to read for the young me ha....)

Nothing that you describe is the first paragraph is “not for kids” but it is not in the 2021 movie.

Okay in the books there is a moot detailed family history, family issues, philosophy, political shenanigans. They may be aimed at adults but that doesn’t mean it is beyond the ability of a kid (9, 10, 16) to understand or enjoy. How many adults can’t get through the book?

You have explained the meaning behind Villenue’s “grown up Star Wars” remark but none of it is in the movie - House rivalries, political shenanigans, religion, etc are show and spoken of in very basic ways just like they are in Star Wars - so the director left out the “grown up” bits. That this a pity because such things would have agreed a lot to my enjoyment of the film.

Other than the helicopters hitch are real helicopters none of the vehicles in Dune 2021 have a “real feels” as far a I can tell and seemed designed to to look cool - which is fine with me - but we never get a proper . Duncan’s fighter it lis the kind of thing I would like to see in a Star Wars Trilogy if Disney ever makes one.

it was Villenvue that compare Dune and Star Wars and you said yourself Lucas was inspired by Dune so I don’t how it isn’t fair.

I don’t understand why people say Dune is hard to adapt. As burden with problems as it was Lynch did adapt it. He had footage for a four hour version - it was studio interference resulted in that other footage m it being used and the rushed “second half”). Shaky dialogue and wobbly acting aside the “first half” of Lynch’s film shows us the same story as Dunes Part 1 but with more Emperors and mutants.

I wasn’t voicing an opinion that Foundation is better than Dune. You said Dune is considered THE sci-fit book. I assume you mean that readers, other writers, sci-if magazines, awards, etc have named it so - I just meant that I thought in the sci-if community that that honour was given to Foundation. I would call it that myself - the concept of the Foundation Saga is fantastic but the characters are paper thin, the way he has then talk is woeful, and the time jumps kill the epicness.

Aye maybe I knew Dune stories well beforehand, in fairness I could see why indeed in the movie there is not a lot of the world/politics/family details in it - and I think that's exactly the hardest thing to adapt Dune. The balance between the huge world with the characters stories unfold in an interesting way, thats receptive to the audience (without some sleep inducing info dumps), also ensuring visually pleasing (most things happened in desert in the end of day ha), plus making sure to get the right actors to deliver the story with styles - all in all just incredible work.

Lynch's Dune...maybe i should watch it again (really don't want to lol), i remember there was massive info dump in the dialogues that it wasn't easy for me back then (someone actually knew the story beforehand), rather problematic jumping scenes (obvious scenes are being cut here and there) that it was madness to have much stories in 1 movie, no characters are being fleshed out iirc, and the visuals dont age well for sure.

Foundation aye the Apple production was nice (and i am fan of Jared Harris), the brothers stole the show and thats about it. Asimov stuffs are even more abstract that I never got into them for long.

Dune 2021 doesn’t suffer from the lack explanation or details about the religion, politics, rivalries, societies, etc.

it shows enough to keep it thinking along and if the viewer cares to they can fill in the blanks with common sense or imagination

The first Dune novel has been adapted for the screen three times - in 1984 regardless of the acting, dialogue, studio interferences, rushed second half the story full is there on the screen - there was a TV series which is quite faithful to the book - and 2021 which according to this thread is a damn fine adaptation of the material so far.

this is my point - it is not as difficult to adapt to the screen as you saying. Sure they had to condense this or drop that, figure how to portray “X” in a way a non-fan would understand - but this is the same if all adaptations

I’m not saying it isn’t difficult (God knows I couldn’t do that long of job) but Dune is clearly not “unfilmable”

Two points - the second is that yes what you describe is not suitable for children. That is a different matter to the other poster talking about the religion, politics, philosophy, etc of the books being a “grown up thing” beyond people under a certain age.

The first and more important point - what do you mean that children take part?

I was not talking about just Dune 1984 with that comment but about all VFX movies. I have already said previously that it hard to believe Dune was out during the Blade Runner/Star Wars era.

A lot of Special effects have aged badly but were good back in the day.

Again, it's not explicitly described, but all fremen in the sietch were participating. Also, they were not simple orgies done just for sexual gratification, but something more mystic related to rituals and beliefs. This is one of the things that are difficult to put in films, although they tried with the TV series, but without these the fremen will be painted as simple savage warriors, but they were much more that that.

You said children took part. What does that mean?