Air to water heat system so expensive?

KCross · 31-01-2021 3:18pm

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Thanks for that, I know its very hard to work out, like asking hiw long us a piece of string. 10 years seems very short, I know I'd be peed off if my oil burner packed up after 10 years.

10 years would be short and it would likely be from a "bad" install where the unit is likely undersized or a draughty house so the unit is running overtime and just burns out. If you are by the sea it can also be affected by the salt air.

Its not also like you have to spend another €10k at that point. It depends on whats gone wrong.

The thing with HP's is that they are alot more expensive than oil/gas burners day 1 but should be cheper to run every year after that. You you need to do your research and ensure you are using reputable installers and quality equipment as a bad install is going to cost you multiples of what oil/gas would if it packs up early.

You tend to hear about the horror stories but not all the good stories. Ground source systems can last decades and dont suffer from frost and salt etc as there is nothing exposed outside... its underground.

Do your research and get references is the key to a good experience.

mickdw · 31-01-2021 3:31pm

KCross wrote: »

10 years would be short and it would likely be from a "bad" install where the unit is likely undersized or a draughty house so the unit is running overtime and just burns out. If you are by the sea it can also be affected by the salt air.

Its not also like you have to spend another €10k at that point. It depends on whats gone wrong.

The thing with HP's is that they are alot more expensive than oil/gas burners day 1 but should be cheper to run every year after that. You you need to do your research and ensure you are using reputable installers and quality equipment as a bad install is going to cost you multiples of what oil/gas would if it packs up early.

You tend to hear about the horror stories but not all the good stories. Ground source systems can last decades and dont suffer from frost and salt etc as there is nothing exposed outside... its underground.

Do your research and get references is the key to a good experience.

I dont think there was that much of a penalty cost wise in using air to water.
Even under last energy regs, the option was often oil plus solar versus heat pump.
The heat pump was covering the renewable requirement so overall, no brainer really.

graememk · 31-01-2021 3:42pm

pj12332 wrote: »

Hi could you recommend which monitor to buy? I've no real issue with Tec. Handy enough (I think anyway)

These are all based on using a CT (current transformer) to measure current.

So the two ive mentioned
Owl : https://www.theowl.com/

the usb one is the first one I got years ago, (so old that the plastic has yellowed!), Still works but is redundant as I've moved over to the openenergymonitor system, (and old, software is clunky).

Micro+ Standalone, Simple, i think it can have 3 months of history, but its all on device.

both are completely wireless, - gets inaccurate when down to 100-200w (it currently is reading 200ish w, where I'm really only pulling 10-20w (running on battery and solar))

They also have a smart, cloud based one - the Intuition. (there is also a model that can monitor solar). CT is still wireless, but this one has to be plugged into your router to use the internet.

Then you have the real hand on, but one of the most accurate as it has a Voltage reference.
The OpenEnergyMonitor's EmonPi
https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/emonpi-energy-monitor-solar-pv-bundle/

This is an opensource project, the Emon Pi has 2 CT inputs (Normally is used to monitor solarPV)
Drawbacks of it is that ideally it needs 2 plugs, 1 for the AC voltage reference and a second for powering the device.

Ideally they need to be beside your consumer unit (whereas the owl monitor can be stuck in the meter cabinet).

With the 2 CT's you can put one on the main feed to monitor your overall electricity and the second on the feed to your Heatpump.

Data is stored locally on the Raspberrypi, but also can be uploaded to the emoncms.org database for easy remote monitoring. (fee of £1/feed/year, you get emoncms.org credit when you order from the shop)

They have "apps" in the website that will generate pretty graphs and visualise the data, but their heatpump one is still in development and i think it needs more than just the power use.

for the heatpump power use, you can build your own graphs in the dashboard section, I have that for pulling monthly stats on solar and house use.

example of the electricity app and dashboard is attached.
Some people have built really pretty and intricate dashboards, mines just functional!

It is a lot more hands on, not just a plug in and go, sort of thing, there's a decent learning curve on it. But really the options are endless - provided you can get the information into the system,

They also have temperature monitors etc and then you can do stuff using MQTT and node Red.

(I currently have a raspberry pi connected to 5 temperature sensors on my hot water tank & Solid fuel stove, also controlling the circ pumps on it)

MAULBROOK · 31-01-2021 3:49pm

mickdw wrote: »

What is your heating cost per year?

Oil 1000 lt every 2 years

ongarite · 31-01-2021 3:52pm

That's an incredibly low amount.
Most people use that and more every year.

Latro · 31-01-2021 3:53pm

The most expensive part in heat pumps is compressor. If it fails and you are out of warranty it would probably make the most sense to replace the whole unit.
Compressors life expectancy is around 100,000 hours of continuous work.
That is about 20 years of on/off if the heat pump operates 50% of time.
I read a post on other forums from one of the HP service engineer. He is in the business for 10 years now, and he is saying he hasn't seen a singe failed compressor yet. It is electronics, valves or water pumps that he replaces the most.

theteal · 31-01-2021 4:05pm

KCross wrote: »

Not for heating, no.

The autumn/summer bills would have little or no heating involved. Hot water only which would be very small.

The OP said the bill jumped by €150 in nov/dec relative to the summer and you have multipled that €150 across the entire year. Thats not how it works.

I'm talking energy costs as a whole for the year. OP said his warm bi-monthly bills are 140-200 so I simply did the maths based on a figure towards the lower end of that range i.e. €150 × 5 "warm bills" and added the bill for the cold months on top. I'm not seeing how that's incorrect. I'm just surprised that my combined bills in my old house are much the same - then again we should probably be talking in units to be accurately comparing as I'd assume UK units are cheaper by the sounds of it.

graememk · 31-01-2021 4:15pm

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Oil 1000 lt every 2 years

Oil alone? Thats impressive. Insulation is key to all heating sources.

So taking your figures as an experiment:

you use 500L per year, 1L of Kerosene has 10.35kwh of heat.
Used in a condensing Oil burner, with 95% efficiency, means you would get 9.8325kwh of heat from your oil burner.

So for heat you use 4916kWh of [heat] energy every year. If you used electricity directly (ie a fan heater or something) its 100% efficient and assume cheapest 24hr rate on energia is about 12c?

That would cost 590 euro/year.
Heat pumps are 300-400% efficient, so take the lower number of 3.
Your heating cost if you had a heatpump would be €196/year.

I am not saying you should rip out your oil burner and switch, you are making the most of what you use. It would never pay you to switch. Oil buner, heatpump, soild fuel? The more insulation the better, Warmer in winter, cooler in summer (but you might have to pull the curtains in summer to keep the sun (+heat) out)

What's the average usage of a house per year? 1000L? 1500?.

Ray Donovan · 31-01-2021 4:17pm

OP,

I have a 245 sq m house built in 2017. A2 energy rated. I keenly follow by bills and my annual bill usually works out at €1,200 per annum. I am on course for that this year again. So on average €200 per bill. Obviously higher in the winter and lower in the Summer.

This winter has been quite cold overall so your pump is working hard during these times so that’s where your higher bill came from.

Just as a reference point, I rented a house your size for 5 years and I was frozen in it. Storage heaters. And I mean frozen. And I was paying around €1,600 per year on electricity for the privilege. So I know first hand how efficient heat pumps are.

What do you think is a reasonable amount to be paying per annum?

Cilar · 31-01-2021 4:25pm

How much do you pay per kwh? Do you shop around every year? We're at 13.4 c per kwh with bord gas at the moment, but would have been at 22c+ per kwh if we had stayed with energia, which can make a huge difference on the bill.

A3 rated detached 210 sqm + electric car + electric cooking. Temp is set at 22.5C in living areas (kitchen, living room, hallway, home office) all the time, and 17C during day and night in bedrooms, with a boost to 21C in evening. We use around 8000 kwh per year. We get ~300e bills for 2 months in winter months, but this includes all consumptions, not just heating, so not really shocking esp with house warm all the time 24/7.

Cilar · 31-01-2021 4:41pm

AMKC wrote: »

I am so glad I have an oil heating system. The way I look at an air to water heating system is it's like a more complicated and more expensive storage heating system. The only good thing about storage heaters is they would store the heat in there blocks and let it out slowly during the day when they were not on. With these air to water systems the only thing storing the heat is your house. So your house needs to be well insulated and airtight. As soon as you open a window or a door any hot air escapes outside and cold air comes in so then your temperature in your house drops and your system comes on to try and bring it up to temperature again. At least with an oils boiler you can decide yourself when to turn it on, for how long and turn it off when I want. Then when Summer comes I just turn it off altogether and do not use it at all untill winter comes again. That is something you can not do with the air to water systems which is crazy.

1. A heat pump generates ~3.5 kwh of heat for each 1 kwh of electricity, whereas a storage heater generates 1 kwh heat for 1 kwh of electricity. 350% efficiency vs 100%.
2. Heat pumps are only for well insulated house, as they work by maintaining the temperature. Oil is for leaky, old houses without proper insulation
3. Heat pump keep the whole house warm 24h/7 - lots of extra comfort compared to oil/gas.
4. Heat pump comes off when it is not heating... it only comes on in summer months for domestic hot water...
5. Heat pump is at minimum ~66% renewable energy, and 100% renewable if picking an electricity provider providing only green electricity.

Latro · 31-01-2021 4:58pm

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Oil 1000 lt every 2 years

Do you really use 500l of oil per year? How big is the house?

Assuming 90% of that is used for heating and you have it on for 180 days per year (180 days is very a optimistic scenario by the way. More realistic would be 210 days).

500l* 0.9 / 180 = 2.5l.

That means on average 2.5l of oil per day is used for heating only.

You can produce about 10kWh of heat energy out of 1l of oil and considering the boiler is 85% efficent:
2.5l * 10kWh * 0.85 efficency = 21.25kWh heat loss per day.

This is extremely low. Is your house passive? What is the internal temperature?

Nermal · 31-01-2021 5:05pm

A properly controlled gas boiler will happily maintain the same temperature 24/7, turn off in the summer, and as a bonus will still actually work properly when the outside temperature is extremely low.

So, I can look forward to a five figure investment in a heat pump, on top of what might be near a six figure retrofit, to end up with bills that equal or exceed what I pay right now for gas?

Surprised people aren't queuing up to have them installed!

graememk · 31-01-2021 5:38pm

Nermal wrote: »

A properly controlled gas boiler will happily maintain the same temperature 24/7, turn off in the summer, and as a bonus will still actually work properly when the outside temperature is extremely low.

So, I can look forward to a five figure investment in a heat pump, on top of what might be near a six figure retrofit, to end up with bills that equal or exceed what I pay right now for gas?

Surprised people aren't queuing up to have them installed!

They work perfectly well in the Nordic countries.. so :shrug:

Nobody's telling you to take out your gas Or deep refit your house, If you want to save some money on your gas bill put it into insulation.

This thread was about a high electricity bill, which yes is to be expected in the winter. But not having an Oil bill or Gas bill can be forgotten.

But with being energy conscious you can reduce bills.
eg we got a EV this year moving from diesel, In march
We have over 20k km done in it since we got it.
Would be good at switching electricity providers every year.

We got the EV, Switched to a day/night meter, moved more loads to run overnight and what we paid in 2020 is about 500 euro less than what we paid in 2019. And we dont have the diesel bill either!

Latro · 31-01-2021 6:04pm

Nermal wrote: »

A properly controlled gas boiler will happily maintain the same temperature 24/7, turn off in the summer, and as a bonus will still actually work properly when the outside temperature is extremely low.

So, I can look forward to a five figure investment in a heat pump, on top of what might be near a six figure retrofit, to end up with bills that equal or exceed what I pay right now for gas?

Surprised people aren't queuing up to have them installed!

This is not true. If you can maintain the same temperature throughout the day with gas or oil heating at reasonable cost, you should be able to do the same with heat pump but at least 50% cheaper.

Ability to maintain the same temperature 24/7 with gas or oil heating on a relatively reasonable cost would indicate:
- the heating is not on a lot
- the house doesn't have astronomically high heat loss

All you would really need is to calculate if your existing rads output would cope with lowered flow temperatures.

For example a radiator that is normally rated at 2000W for gas/oil would drop its output to around 500W if the flow was lowered to 35 degrees.
To compensate for 75% lowered output you would need to run heat pump 4 times longer to achieve the same result. The energy provided will be exactly the same and so will be the same constant temperature.

Considering the above, if your gas/oil is on for less than 6 hours in total per day to maintain constant internal temperature there is no reason why heat pump couldn't do the same in 24h period at 50% cost of the former.

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 9:16pm

Since 1030am this morning my house has consumed 13kwh. That's just a lazy Sunday. Watching TV. Haven't done a wash or showered. Just typical stuff. House is set at 18 degrees throughout. Haven't even got it set to 20 like I had. So the heating hasn't even been on a lot.

13kwh seems so much considering no washing machine or shower or cooking on the hub. Just lights TV and whatever the heater is doing.

Since 11pm yesterday we are at 24kwh. Again with no showers or washing machine or cooking as we got something on the go.

So maybe 30kwh for the 24 hours is likely. On my current tariff that's due to run out soon thats about 30* 0.18cent. do over 5 euro.

Considering I don't have the place at 20 degrees and haven't done much it seems awful expensive to me.

My new tariff will drop my rate to like 13 cent. But my point is, a fiver seems a lot when I've not done much at all!

CoBo55 · 31-01-2021 9:22pm

pj12332 wrote: »

Since 1030am this morning my house has consumed 13kwh. That's just a lazy Sunday. Watching TV. Haven't done a wash or showered. Just typical stuff. House is set at 18 degrees throughout. Haven't even got it set to 20 like I had. So the heating hasn't even been on a lot.

13kwh seems so much considering no washing machine or shower or cooking on the hub. Just lights TV and whatever the heater is doing.

Any other consumers you're overlooking, well pump maybe?

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 9:23pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Any other consumers you're overlooking, well pump maybe?

Nope nothing at all.

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 9:25pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Any other consumers you're overlooking, well pump maybe?

If we had used shower and ran a wash and cooked on the hob it would be 40kwh id say. What is concerning my partner is the fact we dropped the thermostats to 18 two days ago. And to be honest we probably need 20 to be comfortable. So that would likely mean more kWh.

MAULBROOK · 31-01-2021 9:32pm

Latro wrote: »

Do you really use 500l of oil per year? How big is the house?

Assuming 90% of that is used for heating and you have it on for 180 days per year (180 days is very a optimistic scenario by the way. More realistic would be 210 days).

500l* 0.9 / 180 = 2.5l.

That means on average 2.5l of oil per day is used for heating only.

You can produce about 10kWh of heat energy out of 1l of oil and considering the boiler is 85% efficent:
2.5l * 10kWh * 0.85 efficency = 21.25kWh heat loss per day.

This is extremely low. Is your house passive? What is the internal temperature?

My house was rebuilt with one major instruction, insulate insulate and insulate.
before the rebuild 10 years ago i was buying 1300 LT per year, the heating was utter ****.
The house is not passive but its got a secret weapon. A wife who hates having the central heating on. the wood burner helps.
6.2kw solar is the best addition we have added.

CoBo55 · 31-01-2021 9:38pm

pj12332 wrote: »

If we had used shower and ran a wash and cooked on the hob it would be 40kwh id say. What is concerning my partner is the fact we dropped the thermostats to 18 two days ago. And to be honest we probably need 20 to be comfortable. So that would likely mean more kWh.

You must have a very quiet partner, if I tried setting the house temp to 18 degrees or even 20 degrees there'd be murders in the camp. Without heating my house would never drop to 18, overnight it would drop to 20 on a cold night. The heating runs for 4 hours a day (old type oil boiler), saying that I got new windows and doors in July and they've transformed the place. I got 600 litres just before christmas which was all the tank could take, there's just over half the tank left which will easily see me over the coldest time and leave oil for just heating the water during the spring.

alan partridge aha · 31-01-2021 9:38pm

pj12332 wrote: »

If we had used shower and ran a wash and cooked on the hob it would be 40kwh id say. What is concerning my partner is the fact we dropped the thermostats to 18 two days ago. And to be honest we probably need 20 to be comfortable. So that would likely

Sorry to hear that, very high indeed. I sent in a reading to ESB online 9 days ago (mothers house) and I checked it today. She has used 41 units.

There is only 2 of them in a 1100 sq feet bungalow, but the oil would be on alot as she is old and has no stove/fire. She also has an electric cooker and defo would have used washer a few times.

And an electric shower and private well. I just dunno.

CoBo55 · 31-01-2021 9:41pm

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, very high indeed. I sent in a reading to ESB online 9 days ago (mothers house) and I checked it today. She has used 41 units.

There is only 2 of them in a 1100 sq feet bungalow, but the oil would be on alot as she is old and has no stove/fire. She also has an electric cooker and defo would have used washer a few times.

Less than 5 units a day, nothing wrong with that:)

graememk · 31-01-2021 9:58pm

MAULBROOK wrote: »

My house was rebuilt with one major instruction, insulate insulate and insulate.
before the rebuild 10 years ago i was buying 1300 LT per year, the heating was utter ****.
The house is not passive but its got a secret weapon. A wife who hates having the central heating on. the wood burner helps.
6.2kw solar is the best addition we have added.

Well insulated house, Log burner and the love for a cooler house, that would really reduce your heating demands!

MAULBROOK · 31-01-2021 10:10pm

graememk wrote: »

Well insulated house, Log burner and the love for a cooler house, that would really reduce your heating demands!

A hotter wife would help but **** happens.

Mickeroo · 31-01-2021 10:11pm

13kwh for today doesn't seem bad at all considering the weather. That's the entire consumption of your house for the last 20 hours or so? Even if that was all heating its less than a unit per hour.

I wouldn't worry at all based on that and what you said in your op tbh. Put the stat back to 20 and forget about it is what I would do.

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 10:12pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

13kwh for today doesn't seem bad at all considering the weather. That's the entire consumption of your house for the last 20 hours or so? Even if that was all heating its less than a unit per hour.

I wouldn't worry at all based on that and what you said in your op tbh.

No we have now used 25kwh since 11pm last night

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 10:13pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

13kwh for today doesn't seem bad at all considering the weather. That's the entire consumption of your house for the last 20 hours or so? Even if that was all heating its less than a unit per hour.

I wouldn't worry at all based on that and what you said in your op tbh.

13/14kwh since 1030am this morning. Last night we used like 10/11kwh. Still trying to figure that one out too!!

alan partridge aha · 31-01-2021 10:17pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Less than 5 units a day, nothing wrong with that:)

Agreed what bugs me is she's complaining of the esb bill, and its sweet fa as she gets money off been a pensioner.

Mickeroo · 31-01-2021 10:21pm

pj12332 wrote: »

13/14kwh since 1030am this morning. Last night we used like 10/11kwh. Still trying to figure that one out too!!

Your heat pump is working to maintain the temp in your house. The weather is pretty cold at the moment.

What was your consumption like last Wednesday say, when the weather was fairly mild?

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 10:23pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Your heat pump is working to maintain the temp in your house. The weather is pretty cold at the moment.

What was your consumption like last Wednesday say, when the weather was fairly mild?

As above we only have the temperature at 18 the last two days. So it's not even kicking in that much as the house hovers around that. We had it at 20 until a few days ago. When the massive bill came in we dropped it to 18 to see if it made a difference. Only been monitoring since then for 48 hours now. So have to wait for another few days before I can comment. Gonna have to put it back up to 20. As house is a bit nippy at 18. Thanks for your input tho

graememk · 31-01-2021 10:27pm

pj12332 wrote: »

If we had used shower and ran a wash and cooked on the hob it would be 40kwh id say. What is concerning my partner is the fact we dropped the thermostats to 18 two days ago. And to be honest we probably need 20 to be comfortable. So that would likely mean more kWh.

pj12332 wrote: »

Since 1030am this morning my house has consumed 13kwh. That's just a lazy Sunday. Watching TV. Haven't done a wash or showered. Just typical stuff. House is set at 18 degrees throughout. Haven't even got it set to 20 like I had. So the heating hasn't even been on a lot.

13kwh seems so much considering no washing machine or shower or cooking on the hub. Just lights TV and whatever the heater is doing.

Since 11pm yesterday we are at 24kwh. Again with no showers or washing machine or cooking as we got something on the go.

So maybe 30kwh for the 24 hours is likely. On my current tariff that's due to run out soon thats about 30* 0.18cent. do over 5 euro.

Considering I don't have the place at 20 degrees and haven't done much it seems awful expensive to me.

My new tariff will drop my rate to like 13 cent. But my point is, a fiver seems a lot when I've not done much at all!

To put things into perspective My house, today consumed 14 kwh since 23:00 yesterday.

Just general house stuff, Oven was on for about 20-30 minutes and that's it. Its Cold out today so been using more heat than a milder day. (but that's oil, solid fuel)

Generally showers/hobs/ovens are high powered but don't use that much electricity because they aren't on constantly.

I can barely even see the washing machine on my graphs! (tumble dryer is a bit more obvious)

So comparing mine to yours, I used 14, you used 24, so say 10kwh went into heating? - that's the same as burning 3-4 liters of oil. for your whole day of heating.

Are you on night rate? if so the portion used is on night rate.

Also didnt you say you had a spike last night too?
Most likely the sterilisation of your hot water tank, that would take up a chunk.

Car is going to be charged tonight, That really shows up on the graphs!

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 10:30pm

graememk wrote: »

To put things into perspective My house, today consumed 14 kwh since 23:00 yesterday.

Just general house stuff, Oven was on for about 20-30 minutes and that's it. Its Cold out today so been using more heat than a milder day. (but that's oil, solid fuel)

Generally showers/hobs/ovens are high powered but don't use that much electricity because they aren't on constantly.

I can barely even see the washing machine on my graphs! (tumble dryer is a bit more obvious)

So comparing mine to yours, I used 14, you used 24, so say 10kwh went into heating? - that's the same as burning 3-4 liters of oil. for your whole day of heating.

Are you on night rate? if so the portion used is on night rate.

Also didnt you say you had a spike last night too?
Most likely the sterilisation of your hot water tank, that would take up a chunk.

very helpful thanks. So you used 14kwh electricity seperate from your heating Are you saying?

pj12332 · 31-01-2021 10:32pm

graememk wrote: »

To put things into perspective My house, today consumed 14 kwh since 23:00 yesterday.

Just general house stuff, Oven was on for about 20-30 minutes and that's it. Its Cold out today so been using more heat than a milder day. (but that's oil, solid fuel)

Generally showers/hobs/ovens are high powered but don't use that much electricity because they aren't on constantly.

I can barely even see the washing machine on my graphs! (tumble dryer is a bit more obvious)

So comparing mine to yours, I used 14, you used 24, so say 10kwh went into heating? - that's the same as burning 3-4 liters of oil. for your whole day of heating.

Are you on night rate? if so the portion used is on night rate.

Also didnt you say you had a spike last night too?
Most likely the sterilisation of your hot water tank, that would take up a chunk.

Car is going to be charged tonight, That really shows up on the graphs!

Yes spike last night but not the night before. Going for round three tonight ha I hope it's low.

graememk · 31-01-2021 10:33pm

pj12332 wrote: »

very helpful thanks. So you used 14kwh electricity seperate from your heating Are you saying?

Yep my heat is Oil and Soild fuel. So just general house loads.

CoBo55 · 31-01-2021 11:45pm

graememk wrote: »

To put things into perspective My house, today consumed 14 kwh since 23:00 yesterday.

Just general house stuff, Oven was on for about 20-30 minutes and that's it. Its Cold out today so been using more heat than a milder day. (but that's oil, solid fuel)

Generally showers/hobs/ovens are high powered but don't use that much electricity because they aren't on constantly.

I can barely even see the washing machine on my graphs! (tumble dryer is a bit more obvious)

So comparing mine to yours, I used 14, you used 24, so say 10kwh went into heating? - that's the same as burning 3-4 liters of oil. for your whole day of heating.

Are you on night rate? if so the portion used is on night rate.

Also didnt you say you had a spike last night too?
Most likely the sterilisation of your hot water tank, that would take up a chunk.

Car is going to be charged tonight, That really shows up on the graphs!

How much would the car use? Is it full electric or a PHEV?

MicktheMan · 31-01-2021 11:52pm

graememk wrote: »

So comparing mine to yours, I used 14, you used 24, so say 10kwh went into heating? - that's the same as burning 1 litre of oil. for your whole day of heating.

FYP:)

graememk · 31-01-2021 11:55pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

How much would the car use? Is it full electric or a PHEV?

Full electric (e-Niro)

We're averaging 17-18 kwh/100km

20k km done in 9 months, say 10% charging loss, about 3850kWh.

All night rate (0.074), 285 euro ish.

graememk · 31-01-2021 11:57pm

MicktheMan wrote: »

FYP:)

Originally Posted by graememk
So comparing mine to yours, I used 14, you used 24, so say 10kwh went into heating? - that's the same as burning 13 to 4 litre of oil. for your whole day of heating.

unfixed it for you.

A heat pump is 300-400% efficient so 1 unit of electricity can move 3-4kwh of heat from outside to inside. It doesnt generate heat, it moves it. Just like an air conditioner .. but backwards!

MicktheMan · 01-02-2021 12:03am

graememk wrote: »

unfixed it for you.

A heat pump is 300-400% efficient so 1 unit of electricity can move 3-4kwh of heat from outside to inside. It doesnt generate heat, it moves it. Just like an air conditioner .. but backwards!

Okay, you're correct then, I didn't realise you were taking the hp cop into account. My bad.

red_bairn · 10-02-2021 8:56pm

red_bairn wrote: »

When my parents were in New Zealand last Feb-April to see their grandson, brother and all I was back at their house with my wife and child and we spent 137 per month during those colder months (1970s semi-detached house, think it is energy rating is a D, might be higher now with spray insulation in the attic).

We moved out to our own home just after Christmas and we are due our bill from Energia in a fortnight. Currently we are at 200 € for 6 weeks use (113sqm; 3 bed terraced). We tend to be heavy users with laptop, personal pc on all the time and running showers a lot when we wash down the little one. So I reckon the bill may be around 255 when it comes in (it was estimated to be 145 2 weeks ago).

We used 1364 units (0.1938e per unit) between the 14th Dec until 4th Feb.
298.56 in total (inc.Standing Charge [23.07], PSO Levy [11.15]) but then surprisingly a discount of 41% was applied, which we didn't realise we would get, and then cashback for signing up Online.

This brought the bill down to 180.85 although it won't be that low forever so we will have large bills at the end of the year when the large discount is gone.

It will be handy to work out the energy per day as per the OP to see how much energy we are using up (but on average per day it would work out 1364/53days = 26).

CoBo55 · 10-02-2021 11:20pm

red_bairn wrote: »

We used 1364 units (0.1938e per unit) between the 14th Dec until 4th Feb.
298.56 in total (inc.Standing Charge [23.07], PSO Levy [11.15]) but then surprisingly a discount of 41% was applied, which we didn't realise we would get, and then cashback for signing up Online.

This brought the bill down to 180.85 although it won't be that low forever so we will have large bills at the end of the year when the large discount is gone.

It will be handy to work out the energy per day as per the OP to see how much energy we are using up (but on average per day it would work out 1364/53days = 26).

Ahh feck I should have pushed them harder.. I had instigated proceedings to move from Energia to Panda. Panda were giving me 30% discount with €150 cash back, when Energia got wind of it they rang me and offered 37% discount with no cashback, after doing the figures (I use 7300 units per year) I decided to stay. Have you just started a new customer deal?

red_bairn · 09-01-2022 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116238114#Comment_116238114

Didn't notice this reply.

I've gone with Bord Gais for my supplier this year. Have not received the bill yet but much lower per unit.

CoBo55 · 09-01-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445591#Comment_118445591

How much per unit are you getting it for? I'm coming to that time of year again, my god it's a pain in the hoop but worth it especially now with prices so high.

kenmc · 09-01-2022 9:44pm

200sqm house, 3.5 years old,heatpump, day/night meter:

My exact bills and usage over the last 12 months are as follows:

Feb 2021 : €264.39

Apr 2021 : €212.74

Jun 2021 : €195.31

Aug 2021 : €150.85

Oct 2021 : €148.65

Dec 2021 : €203.14

Total €1175.08 for all energy usage. Was less before we were working from home, but only around 100, 150euro.

Since installation my heat pump has used 8929 kWh, mostly at night rate. I drive it to try reach 23 during the night rate time to "charge" the concrete floors with heat, after it heats the water then back to 21.5 during daytime; it rarely goes on during the day unless it's reallllly cold out.

red_bairn · 11-01-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445624#Comment_118445624

16c

https://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/campaigns/best-electricity

red_bairn · 11-01-2022 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446147#Comment_118446147

We're 20-22c in our 112sqm end of terraced.

Our electricity last year amounted to 1162 but with discounts. Moved because of the price per unit and hopefully it will see a bit more in my pocket as long as I don't get stung in other places (bills, taxes, etc).

We have plenty of washing to do especially with a 2.5yr old. Constantly have the pump on for showers, washing, toilet, etc.

Have worked mainly from home since the pandemic started and the other half does too.

CoBo55 · 12-01-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453897#Comment_118453897

That's a great rate in fairness. Many thanks for the link, I'm out of contract in mid February I know who my next supplier is going to be👍

tob08 · 06-04-2022 12:12pm

6 months in a new build 2 bed apt.the electric bills are horrendous. Temps are set at 20 degrees. Bill is 480 for 2months with 380 down to heating. Next month price will be up 24% from next month. Can't change it out and everyone I have had in says it is fine. It went out on error last week and despite 3 different expert come out to repair it only for the same error to return within 2 hrs.The system is a daikin I can't take out the system but putting in an electric shower and bottled gas heater would reduce my bill by 150 euro even allowing for the upwards gas prices ...anyone find similar issues particularly the lack of knowledge shown by installers and maintenance techs rant over

keno-daytrader · 07-04-2022 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888242#Comment_118888242

Something is way off, either your heat pump isnt setup or functioning correctly, your apt has poor airtightness, or there is insufficient insulation. We have a heat pump and didnt spend 380 on heat for the entire year Jan-Dec. temp at 21-21.5.

Is this a rental or do you own it?

Air to water heat system so expensive?

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