Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Cities around the world that are reducing car access

1323335373873

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    'A proper system of oversight'


    Are you familiar with this country at all?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Your irony meter is broken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    A city wide mayor could appeal to nimbies right across the city which would be a fairly sure route to electoral success. The campaigning would probably be a race to the bottom in nimbyism.

    Housing shortags in particular disproportionately fall on those not originally from the city (either from elsewhere in Ireland or migrants*), who are less likely to vote in Dublin so it may not be a big issue in mayoral campaigns. Similarly there are plenty in Dublin who drove around the city most of their lives who oppose greater restrictions on private cars. Could you imagine Mannix Flynn becoming mayor!

    *not dismissing the fact that the housing shortage also effects many Dubs but these are generally young therefore less likely to vote, while the older settled generation who vote in greater numbers are more likely to want the status quo maintained.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    A nimby by definition is an extremely local concern though. Concepts such as safe cycling routes for children are generally popular - just sometimes not locally if it impacts traffic. Campaigning on a ticket of stopping all development everywhere won't get you far. Mannix is a crank who would never get sufficient support city-wide. People want improvements, they just don't want to face the reality of the side-effects. A local politician currently just hops onboard with this and suggests the improvement is done but "elsewhere" - a citywide mayor won't have much truck with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Going back to this, escooters are being legislated for under the Road Traffic and Roads Bill 2021, as well as strengthening of laws around scramblers, etc.;



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭McGrath5


    Part of the R113 in Knocklyon has been closed for 1 week to facilitate sewerage upgrade works. Even with the construction noise, its a far more pleasant place to be without the cars flying by or idling in a line of traffic.


    TLDR - cars are bloody noisy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk



    This is encouraging, for Europe anyway, I really can't see the car being restricted much in Ireland with the shenanigans going on during Covid. We are a bit of a lost cause, and traffic just keeps getting worse.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i knew america was an extreme in how they built their cities, but i hadn't realised why, in the way it's cemented into planning laws:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭McGrath5


    Interesting study released by the department of transport to dramatically increase parking charges in all cities. I’m sure this report will make for a nice dust collector in the department.




  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not really, its pretty much a road map for the future of the cities. The intent is to make the cities more inviting to people and less inviting to cars.

    That 300% figure is one of many potential options but the one selected by one or two journalists for headline grabbing purposes.

    See more here




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I'm not fussed about street parking. In my view the real problem is the multi storeys. They have single handed shelved every proposed pedestrianisation scheme since henry st. Then we see that the actual council is it's self an operator of one of those car parks. Disaster.

    There should be a 500% tax on multistoreys in the city centre so parking as a land use becomes worthless. The planning lawas should be revised to eliminate the requirement for apartments to have underground parking spaces, this would reduce the cost of building new housing also.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    There should be a 500% tax on multistoreys in the city centre

    this approach would last about as long as a meringue in a hurricane.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Somebody please tell me this isn’t real. 🤯



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I think it is real, though the hoardings are temporary.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    question is do the builders have permission to place their hoarding that far out onto the footpath, and if not what will DCC do about it?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Even without the hoarding, it's ridiculous that there's advertising boards blocking half the pavement. How long would it be allowed if, for every one blocking half a pavement, there's one blocking half a road lane?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I've found the roadworks.control@dublincity.ie team at DCC to be fairly responsive at dealing with cases like this.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    would they respond even when it's building works, not road works, causing the issue?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yes, they deal with all the permits for road or path closures, and if someone closes a road or path without a permit, they act fairly promptly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3




  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    From the IT article quoted above:

    The council suggested people walk, cycle or take public transport but that is really not viable given our age profile and the distances people come from,” he said. “We have a constitutional right to worship. People have been going to worship in this church for 121 years. For the council to decide we can’t do that because we can’t access the place is plain wrong.”

    They may have a constitutional right to worship, but it does not extend to the right to park on a public road. If the age profile means they are elderly, then that would imply that they have a free bus pass as well, and they could park a little further away and use the bus for the last few Kms. at no cost to themselves. They could of course walk or cycle as well as use the bus.

    Also, I doubt that many of the congregation have been going to that church for 121 years as that would make them very, very, old.

    As you say, such arrogance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Blocked by bollards

    Mr Sparksman said he accepted parking was “not strictly” permitted on the road, but that churchgoers had never been ticketed for the short duration of services.


    So don't bother with bollards and have a parking warden patrol the road for an hour or two when services are held, I agree with him that that is a much better solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The entitlement surely comes from the lack of enforcement.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    is that the standard presbyterian approach to doing things you know are technically wrong? if so, sign me up.

    anyway, there's another church car park a 300m walk away; perhaps in the spirit of cross-faith goodwill, that church could allow the use of the car park when services don't clash.

    also, regardless of the cycle lane issue - that's not a wide road. do people who have been parking there till now park entirely on the road, or do they pull two wheels up on the path? if the latter, my sympathy for their concern about the elderly will be further strained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Of course those in the church could always pray to their god for a solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The James Webb telescope will more/less confirm the big bang theory as fact in the next 2 years and may also confirm the existence of other biological life forms in the universe so might aswel just close the church now and convert it to something useful and apologise to the congregation for all the lying.

    Besides is it not a religious tenant that you must obey the civil laws of the babalonians anyway? Presumably including the laws on illegal parking.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    This missing the point.

    To combat CO2 emission, public transport, cycling and walking must replace driving - even an electric car.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Won't matter a damn unless they actually start enforcing it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The fine could be a million, it'll never be issued



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Who is meant to issue the fines?

    AGS have no interest.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Would be a good for addition to the online reporting portal if they ever get around to setting it up. The system would basically run itself



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Interesting opinion. Note to others. Please don't confuse that Poster's pronouncements as fact when they are only half-baked opinions.

    Thanks all the same for the guidance but I'll continue to drive my electric car charged with renewable electricity.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    The national debt would be wiped out in a week



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox




  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I only ask because there isn't a 100% renewable electricity provider in Ireland. Do you have a load of solar panels? Turbines?



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    considering the river is about bursting its banks at the moment I expect most of the electricity locally is currently(sic) coming from the hydro plant built below water level at the sluice gates.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It requires some to forsake their car for other means of transport - not everyone, but many. Just as recycling your waste. If you do not do it, well so be it, but if enough do, then that change will matter.

    Changing an ICE car for electric car will not be enough unless many others do give up the car, or at least make greater use of PT or cycling or walking. There are other solutions, like the Go Car that is short term rental, or greater available P&R facilities.

    Just because it does not suit you does nor mean that others would be of the same position.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    I didn't say it didn't suit me to use public transport. I have a better range of transport options available than most with e-scooters, public bikes, car share parked in car park nearby, multiple bus routes and local rail options very nearby but having my own private transport available to me is simply hands down more convenient all the time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's perfectly fine and more power to you.

    However, therein lies the major problem.....its TOO convenient.

    To be honest, the description you have given is of a car user primed for a move to a more sustainable mode of transport.

    The objective for planners etc, is to shift that balance of convenience towards those alternate modes. This is done through any of the following

    Carrot

    • Protected cycling infrastructure, expanded bike parking, bike share, sheltered bike parking
    • Increased permeability and accessibility, priority at crossings over motor traffic, longer crossing times, more crossing points with signals
    • Bus lanes, higher frequency, expansion of routes and priority at junctions
    • Park & Stride locations

    Stick

    • Increased parking costs
    • Congestion charges
    • Limiting access
    • One-way systems
    • Various taxes and levies (workplace parking charges, fuel taxes, VRT etc)

    So in the end, you will still have a multitude of options to chose from, as you listed out, however the balance of convenience will have shifted to encourage you to make a more sustainable choice, thereby freeing up capacity on the road network for those who have no other option, but to drive.

    If you still choose to drive after that, you can, but it won't necessarily be the most convenient option



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Why is it "too convenient" to have my own personal transport? Why do I want to make hardship for myself. There is no local congestion. There is no local pollution(and don't start quoting questionable reports about tyre debris and brake dust). There is no CO2 emission from renewable source.

    All four of the carrots mentioned there are present in my city. Buses have priority basically everywhere in the locality.

    The dogmatic eco-warrior autocrat will now move on to the Sticks even though they are not needed.

    About the only further concession I'm willing to make is to a small footprint quadricyle powered by Electricity which maximises usage of roadspace while recognizing the independence and freedom of the Citizen. At the moment I could drive a Quadricycle with a Moped licence with no road tax or road worthiness check and insurance at maybe about 50 quid but the choice of electric quadricycles is severely limited at the moment and they are obscenely overpriced. I can live with a 45kmph top speed as higher speeds are not particularly necessary in this urban area.

    That isn't in keeping with the Dogma round here so you'll brush over that and move on to the sticks with which to beat people's backs.

    It appears to be their way or the highway...oh wait...roads are evil.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So dramatic lol.

    Here, take a look at this. He explains it far better than I will at this late hour given your response to my last post. Suffice to say, its not about you, or me, its about giving viable alternatives and letting people choose the most convenient option for them for any given moment/situation/requirement.

    Or review this, from Waze, showing the Nederland's was voted the best place to drive in the world, simply because a hell of a lot of people choose not to drive if they don't really need to

    The critical thing to remember is this is about shifting the balance of convenience towards more sustainable modes, that is all. If some wish to keep driving everywhere all day, lash ahead, but it won't be as convenient.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    How about adding a few points to the Carrot list rather than adding to the Stick list in pursuit of your car-lite nirvana.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    removing VAT on purchase of personal mobility solutions including electric quadricycles.

    If for example you want to get from Sandymount to Palmerstown or somewhere that isn't quiet Palmerstown then you either drive your car or use the magical mystery tour that is the No. 18. At 13km it is too far for most mortals to walk or cycle.

    with an e-bike or quadricycle that is a very easy distance except you have to stump up for the e-bike or quadricycle. A €500 Fiido becomes just over €400.

    A quadricycle loses 23% VAT.

    When the personal mobility solution becomes more attainable then you can think whether you buy a monthly or annual commuter ticket or stick to the bike. 20 years ago I was using a pushbike in preference to public transport in the inner suburbs of Dublin. When the old first or second car in your family needs repair or scrapping you can think whether you really want the hassle of owning a second car with all the obligations and restrictions or if you can afford to migrate to a personal mobility solution. Within 5 to 10 years of incentivising personal mobility solutions there will be transformation.

    Amsterdam, Holland is held up as an example of a city that has moved away from Cars. It is an example because the existing old-fashioned personal mobility solution of a bike doesn't push its limits in a small flat compact city like Amsterdam. The pushbike is doing ALL the heavy lifting in Amsterdam, not the prohibition of cars or the public transport system. The human powered pushbike is beyond its limits in Dublin due to sprawl, climate and geography.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The human powered pushbike is beyond its limits in Dublin due to sprawl, climate and geography.

    That is utter nonsense. People did it for decades. Dublin is relatively flat compared to many other cities. The climate is actually quite mild here and is quite similar to Amsterdam (see here)

    As for the sprawl, that is largely due to the car-based culture but the bike does have a role to play helping to overcome it.

    I'm not trying to force anyone out of a car and onto a bike. However, at least when we're having this discussion, lets not make up stuff which is blatantly untrue.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Good idea regarding VAT

    Removal of VAT has been agreed at the EU level recently, as a way to reduce costs for bikes, ebikes, etc. Now it's just a matter of waiting for the reduction to become a reality

    As for the actual costs themselves, you seem to be baulking at this yet I wonder what the purchase price of your car was, plus the amount spent annually on fuel, service, tax, insurance etc for comparison.

    Not looking for you to tell me, it just surprises me sometimes when this cost issue is brought up as a barrier but the same issue is not a barrier for their car despite the significantly higher costs, generally speaking. It's a a difficult one to understand

    As an example, the Fiido price you quoted is around what you would spend for a new set of tyres and cheap ones at that.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement