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Sock-Puppetting and the Current Affairs Forum

  • 05-01-2022 12:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,304 ✭✭✭✭


    There is a quite extraordinary set of posts (#11301 and #11305) on the Sinn Fein thread in the Current Affairs forum where the mod Beasty outs a set of at least ten accounts that have been engaged in sock-puppeting for nearly a year on the Forum. Firstly, well done to the mods for the work that must have been done to flush out this user. However, there are a number of questions that arise.

    (1) How did it take so long to spot this sock-puppetting? These were prolific posters across a number of threads and came to the attention of the mods on more than one occasion. The McMurphy account in particular has been active for many years in various guises, is it only the last year that it has been engaged in this activity? Over the years, posters have been reassured by statements in the old Prison forum that Boards had a full set of tools to root out such activity. Have these tools been lost during the changeover, or is it just the lack of mods and the changeover that was exploited by this particular user? If there has been a loss of ability to detect such sock-puppetters, it would be useful to alert users to this now so that vigilance can be exercised to ensure it doesn't happen again. On that point, how can we be certain that all have been caught?

    (2) The mod post concludes that there is nothing at this stage to suggest this was anything more than one individual looking to use this site for their personal political purposes. Is there evidence this is the case? The accounts combined pursued a singular political party line, a party that has openly recruited for online supporters and openly encouraged its members at election time to pretend they were from a fake polling company. How can Boards be certain that it hasn't been played by someone acting on behalf of this political party?

    (3) Usernames. This issue isn't just related to this particular sock-puppetting, but might be worth raising. The character McMurphy in the book One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest has a very misogynist aspect (this doesn't come out as clearly in the movie). While I am all for freedom of expression, we have seen other usernames in the past with homophobic, racist and misogynist undertones. Is there a boards policy on usernames, or should there be one? There are a couple of examples still around that are somewhat dodgy. The borderline between low-level racism and ignorance is a thin one and difficult to police, but I would be interested to know.

    (4) Given that the modus operandi of this sock-puppetting operation appears to have been to pursue a particular political agenda in an aggressive way and also target other posters, will there be a review of actions taken against other posters as a result of interaction with this person. I am certain that there are users who have been sanctioned, threadbanned or forum-banned as a result of interaction with one of these accounts, and then reported just by the other ones. Taking one for the team in order to bring another poster down with them in other words.

    Again, well done to the mods, and in accordance with the instruction in the posts, I haven't raised these issues in the thread but taken them to Feedback to consider some of the general issues that have been raised by this incident.

    Post edited by Spear on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    I don't have answers to your questions but would like to echo your sentiments in praising the mods who have done a bang up job. Great to see justice done and that multi accounting is not permitted.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,514 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    As I stated in one of the posts referred to above this specific issue belongs in Help Desk rather than Feedback (although since the platform changeover HD no longer has a pre-approval requirement, there are different rules and Help Desk deals with issues like this so thread moved from Feedback)



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,514 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    In terms of how long it took I would mention a couple of relevant factors:

    1. As I indicated this has been going on predominantly since around March of last year. As has been well documented our powers (at Mod and Admin levels) were significantly less since the platform changeover in July. When someone does something like this you would expect some attempt to cover their tracks, but equally people may not go to so much trouble due to both passage of time, but also the fact the person in question probably realised we had less powerful tools. Just to add, since the changeover there has been significantly less activity at Admin level. That extends to myself as I have found both CA and Coronavirus forums have taken up a lot of my time.
    2. As we say repeatedly, we do rely on reports and indeed in this case there were reports of some suspicious activity. That increased in the time leading up to my actions, and those reports provided additional information. In this case it was not the original account that triggered my own review. It was other accounts that I linked and only then saw that everything linked back to the McMurphy account. The fact I do moderate CA and in doing so I have access to the Admin tools we do have which probably put me in a unique position here allowing me to uncover the extent of the deception taking place.

    On your 2nd point, the posts were being made from domestic and/or mobile IPs. I wanted to make clear there was no evidence of there being anyone else involved because there was no such evidence. When I posted all that detail I suspected there would be speculation that the party itself was possibly behind these actions and I wanted to avoid there being any suggestion this site had any evidence to this effect, or indeed was encouraging such speculation. Given there was no such evidence it was a point I was comfortable in making, but also pre-emptively sought to protect the site being dragged into a debate over possible involvement of the political party.

    In terms of usernames I've never watched the film in question. Equally even if I had made such a connection I don't think the username itself is offensive in the same way someone taking the names of the likes of Hitler may be. We do have rules against offensive usernames, and these are set out in the site ToU:


    6.1 Usernames

    We would recommend you choose a pseudonym and do not use your real name (or a derivative of it) when joining boards.ie. You may not select or use a username that:

    • contains "Boards" or otherwise misrepresents your relationship with boards.ie or any other party
    • contains any profanity, is vulgar or offensive, or promotes an illegal activity
    • violates any trademark or other proprietary right
    • misleadingly impersonates someone else
    • Occasionally users may speculate about the identity of anonymous or pseudonymous users. Such speculation is against our Terms of Use and we delete all such posts which are brought to our attention. However please be aware that we cannot guarantee that other users will not be able to determine your identity. There should be no expectation of complete anonymity anywhere on the internet.
    • We reserve the rights to change usernames at our discretion. You cannot change your username after registration unless you become a subscriber.

    Posters can report usernames violating these rules.


    On the final point it is an exercise I would not suggest we follow. It would be time consuming, but equally is posters fell foul of forum or site rules the fact they were interacting with one particular individual is irrelevant. The rules are there for people to follow, and people should not speculate in open forums about this sort of thing. In this case people may well have been proven right, but that is not always the case (indeed I have seen reports of others being associated with this activity, but in those particular cases I am as comfortable as I can possibly be that there is no connection - someone posting such suspicions can end up unfairly creating suspicion of users going forward. Again though I would encourage posters to report such suspicions together with details of what triggered those suspicions and we will take a look



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire


    I agree 100%. It is well known that there is a sock-puppeting problem on this site, and it’s wonderful to see the powers that be deal with it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sock Puppetting? is that what the kids call it these days? In my day we did a "muppet" check round here. 😀

    You read threads in certain places though and you view some with join dates of 20/21 with suspicion. I don't envy folks having to mod this site these days.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It been an issue since I joined. Must be much harder to prevent now with GDPR rules and retaining data.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The muppet check was the tool mods had to check for sock puppets back in the day.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,514 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Nothing like that on this platform. I have more info as an Admin, but in some ways not much more than I had as a mod on the old platform.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,514 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I don't think sock puppeting was that bad. Stopping it did though mainly rely on people reporting their suspicions. The example that triggered this thread was, by a country mile, the worst I have seen on this site

    That's different from re-regs of banned (at forum or site levels) users, which Modutils was mainly used to identify

    Now it may still be going on with others, but if it is I suspect someone has to spend a lot of time and effort to cover their tracks. As I've already indicated I think there were a number of stars aligned which allowed this one to get away with it so extensively



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    I would just like to echo the praise for the mods, particularly Beasty, for, what essentially boils down to, great detective work in uncovering this “carry on”.

    Just to go back to point #2 in the OP, would it be possible to pay particular attention to users posting all day for that political party. Especially the ones who continually say they don’t vote for them or that they vote Soc Dem but are going to vote for that party now?

    The real fear would be that while that user had all their accounts destroyed the party could, just as easily, have another step in but learn lessons on concealment and go under the radar.

    Every party has their own “cheerleaders” on the site but that party would be the only one with the resources and the ability to mobilise online, in such a fashion.

    Just a suggestion, for “going forward”. Best of luck with it, anyway, and, again, well done mods on a job, very, well done.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sock puppeting was always an issue Beasty.

    CA takes a further dive now...


    You would like to think that wouldn’t you.

    iI’ll have to hand it to you even after the ‘Big 10’ debacle you have been here day and night trying to keep this issue alive single handed.

    An issue that is extremely low in the priorities of most ordinary folk I would suggest.


    these type of posts appearing on threads you have hollowed out into more or less echo chambers that totally defeat the notion of 'discussion' forums.

    A decent forum destroyed. Basically because a mod will only respond to reports-issue draconian punishments,(you get the same punishment for having multiple accounts as you do for a bit of robust repartee) no amnesties etc. And yet similar robust comment happens all over the shop and people get on with it.

    Well done on finding the multiple accounts and well done on destroying CA.

    Post edited by FrancieBrady on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Im banned from the SF thread so havent seen this but fair play

    Does this mean that we can acknowledge that SF online warriors have been coordinating posting to an extraordinary extent and making most political or political-aligned threads unusable on boards for year now, because you used get infracted for saying that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite



    It sure has - you can even find some examples of it happening back in 2011, Funnily enough if was prominent cheerleaders of the same political party that were at it then as well






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No it means that sock puppeting is still the issue it always has been. Sock puppet accounts have been used right across the forums here from year dot, by soccer enthusiasts to film buffs to political commentators. (search 'sock puppet' and you'll see that)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks francie i was asking the mods tbh not the suspects 👍



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Funny how certain posters managed to get away without the sanction you've linked to there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You doing a bit of judge and jury yourself b/w?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    when are you gonna get rid of mr fegelein? Or does he create too much traffic?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    So you're saying that the sock puppets should have been permitted because it apparently they facilitated a "discussion"? If you feel lonely on those threads without one person operating 10 accounts, then you might have to rethink just how much anyone else actually cares about the topics you want to discuss.

    If you feel that legitimate conversation is being derailed by people calling out sock puppet accounts, then report the posts to have them removed and put the posters on ignore. People who actually want to engage in the conversation will do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What?

    I was Happyman in a previous account...I changed account with the full knowledge of the mods.

    Nice little bit of hanging the wrong person there b/w



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Where the f* did I say 'sock puppet accounts should be allowed'?



  • Posts: 2,725 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I mean who actually has the time to operate multiple accounts, and/or spend 14 hours a day on the current affairs forum? It’s extraordinary behaviour when you think about it. Takes a certain type of special personality one would opine.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Any chance of a link to the relevant posts btw, for a mobile user the post# isnt as far as i can see usable!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    You've tried that lie before and been caught out on it.

    There was no change of name - it was two different accounts, open at the same time and with an overlap of approximately 5 years, and caught replying one after the other on the Queen's visit thread. Posts 258 and 259.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,514 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    That account was banned a year ago. As has been a significant number of re-regs. Those accounts were not engaged in sock-puppeting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No idea what the accusation is here.

    I closed the Happyman account...informed the mods what I was doing and why and began posting as FB.

    What '5 year' overlap?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    The Happyman42 (nice attempt to misquote the old name in the hope people won't be able to search for it though) account was closed in 2015 - the current one opened in 2010 and was posting through that 5 year period as well.

    I've linked to a thread of both accounts posting one after the other - within 10 minutes of each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No it wasn't.

    I had two accounts with the full knowledge of the mods as one was for a specific purpose.

    A mod will be able to confirm this. There is no evidence of the two account overlapping over a five year period that is a lie. You found a post where I posted by mistake.


    BTW...I have since had two accounts in different names, all with the knowledge of the mods (Beasty can confirm) for a specific purpose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    was the name of the other account @happyman42 ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Francie - I provided evidence of the two accounts posting one after the other.

    Claiming that there is no evidence of them overlapping, and calling me a liar for providing PROOF of them overlapping is quite the leap - even by your standards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Your '5 year' nonsense is the lie, it is as clear as day that there is no attempt to sock puppet there...I am just continuing the discussion as Happyman42.

    Nice try b/w.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Well, I mean you're complaining that Beasty's actions have caused the CA forum to now be full of

    "threads you have hollowed out into more or less echo chambers that totally defeat the notion of 'discussion' forums."

    So the only implication I can draw from that is that you think having threads bulked out by sock puppets in the name of "discussion" is preferable.

    If a thread becomes an "echo chamber" after the loss of sock puppet accounts and you now find yourself in a minority, then the reality was that you were always in a minority and the thread was always an echo chamber.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes, if you search the forums some more, you will see posters challenging me as being a re-reg of happyman42 and you will also see me not denying it. As that change of accounts was done with the full knowledge and approval of mods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No...take a look at the government thread and the protocol one. Key posters threadbanned for nothing more than robust debate...with no comeback or ammnesty. Makes for easy modding destroys discussion



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Can you clarify something for us @Beasty ? @FrancieBrady is claiming that the change of account from @Happyman42 was done with the consent of the mods. The happyman42 account was started in 2009. the franciebrady account was started in 2010. both accounts were still posting in 2011 so an overlap of at least a year where both accounts were posting. and posting on the same thread. see link below for consecutive posts in the same thread by the two accounts. to me this looks like sock-puppetting to me. can you clarify if this was mod sanctioned sock-puttetting?






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    happyman42 posts after franciebrady. if you had stopped using happyman42 and started to use franciebrady this would not be the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    One mistaken post making the same line of argument is 'sock puppeting'? 😀😀

    I requested that identifying posts be removed under GDPR facilities. One of those accounts was used for a specific purpose with the full permission of mods.

    I currently have two accounts at the moment (not the Happyman one but another) that is for a specific purpose with the full approval of beasty himself. It also posted by mistake (maybe Blackwhite can track that down as a challenge) and I immediately informed Beasty of the mistake.

    Having two accounts is not a crime...sock puppeting is...so, work away...prove I was sock puppeting or withdraw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    you were posting with two accounts on the same thread at the same time. that is sock-puppetting to me. I doubt the mods intended you to do that. anyway, lets see what @Beasty has to say. I think a public statement on this is required from the admins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    One post, is not 'posting'. And what I was doing(having two accounts, was with the full knowledge of the mods as it is now)


    Sorry to ruin what must have been arduous work by blackwhite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't have the PM's from back in 2011 but I do have the PM's with Beasty, seeking permission to open a second account and informing him of the mistaken post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    i'm sure beasty will be happy to confirm that so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    30 second google is all it took to expose your repeated lying on the subject.

    If what you've claimed is true, and confirmed by Beasty then it's the first time anyone else would be aware of you being granted special privileges to multi-account.

    You've the arrogance to call people liars for posting proof of you using two accounts to reply - in succession - on the same thread. Typcial Francie - it's always someone else's fault, and your default response is to get aggressive and abusive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,931 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Here is the lie Blackwhite in big bold letters.


    The Happyman42 (nice attempt to misquote the old name in the hope people won't be able to search for it though) account was closed in 2015 - the current one opened in 2010 and was posting through that 5 year period as well. I've linked to a thread of both accounts posting one after the other - within 10 minutes of each other.


    You linked to a thread where the two threads overlapped by mistake once and ran off crying sock puppet/ 5 years!

    Will you withdraw allegations that I was sock puppeting?



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