Sock-Puppetting and the Current Affairs Forum

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441031#Comment_118441031

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441155#Comment_118441155

Isn't it interesting how easy it is to have these discussions when specific posters have been removed.

Look i dont want to keep bumping the thread but honestly one aspect of the whole thing just doesnt sit well with me and i think it needs resolution

Surely the title should be "sock puppetry" i mean nobody practices puppetting ask anyone who puppets

Scarleh for yeh OP

Esel

^ I prefer Sock Muppetry myself.

facehugger99

facehugger99

What is most concerning from this thread is the relative ease that Shinnerbot sock-puppetry has been allowed on Boards. If anyone thinks the McMurphy antics were an isolated incidence, they are a fool.

Anyone with even a passing interest in the CA forum could see that it was being targeted by pro-SF online tactics. Francie Brady, finally an acknowledged sock-puppet, was given free rein to bombard any thread, critical of SF, with his whataboutary BS - hell, he was even allowed into this thread to do it.

As far as the "way to go Beasty" comments are concerned, the Moderation of these antics are appalling - it was only after a poster provided cast-iron proof of Francie's sock-puppetry, that any sanctions were taken.

Fair dues the poster that took the time to expose Francie Brady - he did the job the Mods should have done years ago.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441970#Comment_118441970

You're conflating two things there - running multiple accounts in a deceitful way, and being an awful poster who purposefully destroys reasonable discussion to serve an agenda. Francie certainly did the latter i don't think we can really accuse him of the former. While Francie was technically sock-puppeting i think it would be unfair characterise him as such since it was one occasion 10 years ago, compared to the post this thread is about.

It not fair to give the mods a hard time for not catching sock-puppets since this thread is about them doing exactly that, and the other example given was thoroughly investigated and also punished. If you've evidence of it and have presented it to the mods and they've ignored it that would be one thing, but i'm presuming you just have suspicions due to the unpleasant way certain posters ruin threads. correct me if i'm wrong. If you've no evidence it's hardly fair to blame mods for not acting on simple allegations.

I do think Francie was modded with a very light touch considering his posting style. His posts are so similar to Downcows, just opposite in allegiance, that i would readily believe if they were the same person. Yet Downcow gets dealt with much more harshly as do others who find themselves disagreeing with Francie and co. in the protocol thread alone there was pages of posters directly criticizing Downcow in a personal way, i was one of them, yet it was only when I directed mild criticism towards Francie that i was warned.

Now it may be that Francie and his like are more likely to report items and that leads to apparent mod bias, but with that being invisible to general users it's very hard to see it as anything else.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440519#Comment_118440519

I never made a proposal to accuse anyone who disagrees of being a Shinnerbot Sock Puppet. Your imagination is running away.

All I said is that from now on SF-supporting pile-ons will be look at with a jaundiced eye. That is no fault of anyone except the SF-supporting sock-puppets.

As for the two examples in ten years hardly groundbreaking evidence, an alternate explanation is that it has been happening for ten years, and they are the only two who were caught. I wouldn't be drawing any conclusions either way.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441813#Comment_118441813

You got me there!!! 😂

mikethecop

Great thread , fantastic to see the shinnerbots being exposed as they do so much damage here in the past and ongoing

A shame something cant be done about it long term , I guess an online army is the way politics is done these days

i do hate the way that pointing out shinnerbots instantly makes you a ff fg stooge 🤭

the irony of shinnerbots denying the existence of shinnerbots is gas and very much the organisation party line just like gerry

fair play to the mods and other posters calling out these digital jackbooted bully's it was fun to watch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442308#Comment_118442308

Id add a third very suspicious thing, that maybe doesnt come under sockpuppeting, but has been pointed out many many times, often resulting in a warning to the person pointing it out:

An account years old, seemingly logged in fourteen hours a day, available to respond within minutes to any possible topic that can be brought around to the SF party line and kept there to the detriment of discussion across hundreds of threads in that time.

An account that I have never seen post on any topic other that to deflect discussion away from SF or towards FG as the former party would wish.

Lads, 999 doesnt respond with that level of reaction and focus.

Thats not sock puppeting but it definitely needs to come under serious attention because that's two full-time jobs for most people yet theres apparently nothing suspicious about any of it if the question is ever asked.

I think now is absolutely the time and the place to ask the mods once and for all whether they really are asking everyone else to swallow this fairly obvious setup and just carry on bothering to post, ignoring the whataboutery, provocation and thread wrecking that has become the mark of current affairs political discussion in the last few years on the site.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444091#Comment_118444091

I don't know much about what happened and I don't recollect any of the users involved and their posting history, were all of these accounts pro sinn féin?

I noticed at time one of the ten banned accounts listed by beasty were called ''scumfein'' so I automatically assumed that these accounts were all anti sinn féin accounts?

Why are these accounts being labelled as shinnerbots and not the other way around?

Do you very often hop into threads without reading the posts in them and then tell everyone that you're confused?

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446596#Comment_118446596

Are you now, or have you ever been, a ... ?

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446662#Comment_118446662

The point is, who is to say these accounts were made to benefit Sinn Féin like people are suggesting and not the other way around?

atticu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437222#Comment_118437222

I have to agree with you.

I don’t think that Johnny Dogs McMurpy is gone from Boards.ie.

I don’t think that all the active Johnny Dogs McMurphy account have been uncovered.

One thing is that many posters will remember that posting style, and when new users start posting in that style, then I think that it will be time to ‘stop feeding the Troll’.

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446825#Comment_118446825

It’s more the re-activated dormant accounts I’d say.....

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446795#Comment_118446795

Do you really have the gall to suggest that the 10+ sock-puppets which were posting in favour of Sinn Fein and it's positions were some kind of aniti-SF operation? The blatant attempts here to somehow shift away any sort of association with Sinn Fein is so baldly apparent. Fionn and other reasonable posters take note, these are the kind of tactics that undercut any sort acknowledgment you make of the issue.

Harry, in case you missed it, in the original posts here https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382256/#Comment_118382256 Beasty is the one who states that the Scumfein account was clearly there to cause outrage and kite moderates to the SF side.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446852#Comment_118446852

I would have no way of knowing without going through the posts which have been deleted but maybe these McMurphy accounts were made to make invalid arguments for the purpose of undermining the SF position and to make moderates go to the anti SF side.

It's a pointless exercise either way, it's not that boards is going to have any real influence but it's just a thought.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446922#Comment_118446922

Why are you even commenting on it if its all pointless? Seems to me you are stirring it up looking for a reaction.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446958#Comment_118446958

Think the term is deflection.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446958#Comment_118446958

Maybe I phrased that wrong, anyway what I'm saying is maybe this isn't as clear cut as it seems.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446981#Comment_118446981

12 pro sf accounts shut down in a week on the site. What is not clear cut?

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447002#Comment_118447002

It's not clear cut if he was making valid arguments or if he was making incoherent arguments in an attempt to make Sinn féin look bad under the guise of being a Sinn féin supporter.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447015#Comment_118447015

He\She\Them were banned by moderators on the site. Maybe ask them instead of this attempt of a deflection defence here.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447015#Comment_118447015

Have a look through his 13k+ posts in the main account and you can make your own mind up

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446596#Comment_118446596

I will take at face value that you only joined in September 2021, have no previous accounts and have no association with the McMurphy accounts.

This is what happened. There was a sustained attempt by all of the accounts to promote a SF agenda and to discredit any posters who disagreed with that view. Even the one account that pretended to differ was designed to shed a bad light on those who opposed SF and paint SF as a victim.

Full credit to the mods for exposing it.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447053#Comment_118447053

Can you send me a link to the account? I think all the posts from those accounts have been deleted as it stated in your original post where you announced what happened on the Sinn Féin thread.

Twould make you wonder has johnny really burned through harryd's 1 thru 224 already like

Harryd225

Can someone please link the McMurphy account for me, I am unable to find it.

I'll have a look through the posts if I realise I was wrong I will have no hesitation in coming back here and admitting it.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447141#Comment_118447141

I think the moderators have already provided your thoughtful services to save your time. They found out that there was up to 10 accounts linked to the same user who spent night and day promoting a single political party.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447160#Comment_118447160

It's not clear cut if he was making valid arguments or if he was making incoherent arguments in an attempt to make Sinn féin look bad under the guise of being a Sinn féin supporter.

He was banned for sock puppeting accounts, the true intention of these accounts are still up for debate.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447037#Comment_118447037

It's a pretty sh*te deflection attempt in fairness! Haha

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447201#Comment_118447201

There's no attempt at deflection, I'm making a valid point that maybe the tactic he was supposedly using for the Scumfein account was the true tactic he was using for the rest of the accounts.

I have no way of knowing without looking through the posts myself.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447188#Comment_118447188

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447201#Comment_118447201

Well @Fionn1952 you are not trying to defend this?

Maybe you can see my point now about this.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447213#Comment_118447213

Knowing a bit of the posting history of the account (and a few of the proxy accounts) purely through my own posting history, that line of reasoning is totally devoid of credibility.

As suggested, I'd recommend finding a few of McMurphy, BKelly21 or Cdarby posts and having a look through.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447188#Comment_118447188

Which account? There has been 12 banned in this round of actions due to the excellent work of the mods on here in the last week.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447224#Comment_118447224

I'm certainly not trying to defend it, Blanch (as you'll see from my most recent post, quite the opposite).....however do I think the clumsy deflection means the poster HarryD is on the SF payroll/ a SF Volunteer/ some sort of sock puppet account, as per your suggestion? I'd take a fair bit more convincing to be honest.

I could, of course be wrong. My suggestion would still stick with my original position; if you suspect any of those are the case, report and ask the mods to investigate rather than just making insinuations on the thread.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447230#Comment_118447230

You are probably right, but the problem is that these sock-puppeting accounts have brought complete disregard to the Sinn Fein position. With all due respect to yourself and others like Junkyard Tom (who I fundametally disagree with), I have never had any doubts as to the sincerity of your positions. however, over the last 24/48 hours, around 50% of the accounts I have suspected of sock-puppetting have been found out as being so.

You are one of the few posters willing to discuss the issues with Sinn Fein without some pejorative precondition, so I welcome a future that includes posters like you rather than the banned sock-puppets.

Mr Burny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447188#Comment_118447188

Get up the garden would ya !!

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437416#Comment_118437416

I was one of those posters and I can assure you that I do not have multiple accounts. if you are aware of people with multiple accounts then report them to beasty.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437524#Comment_118437524

It was very straightforward. Once I had the two usernames names helpfully provided by @blackwhite when they posted their example I was able to find evidence of further posts using the the sites own search. only took a few minutes.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447141#Comment_118447141

Just look through the SF thread in CA. Also the Government thread. Look from the new platform in July. You will see banned posters all over the place, mainly being half a dozen or so of the McMurphy accounts (and the list of those accounts is at the second post mentioned in the OP of this thread)

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118447283#Comment_118447283

I suppose it is pretty easy for me to discuss the issues with SF; I'm as much of a SF voter as you are, Blanch. Despite our significant differences of opinion when it comes to, 'the constitutional question', I think we actually vote the same way, with a preference for SDs and Greens. Given that I was still in D15 for the last election, in all likelihood we voted for the same candidates. I think I've mentioned in the past that when living in NI, I did indeed vote for them, but you're aware enough of the political situation there to realise that was a vote against someone else rather than an endorsement of SF as such. I do happen to have a significant amount of exposure to and experience with the party, and would likely have had more in depth personal interaction with many significant figures within the party than most posters here over the years, so I do tend to get drawn into threads about them.

Given the support that SF currently have, sensible conversation requires SOME input from those who will vote for them, or at least those considering it.

To be honest, I find the influx of, 'well I don't and never have voted for SF, but I'm going to defend absolutely everything they do or say' type of posting more endemic and problematic than the sock puppeting issue.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448326#Comment_118448326

On your last point - I have found myself in a position of 'defending' SF as a very much not an SF voter in threads about Govt parties when "whatabout SF" comes some kind of default response. And I have been dismissed as an SF member/bot so often I just don't bother anymore. I have no time to be putting up with that kind of childish nonsense.

I don't post in the SF thread. I stopped posting in threads about Govt parties because if I wanted to discuss SF I would be in the SF thread.

I do not want to get into some bickerfest about them when trying to discuss the parties actually in Govt - I feel exactly the same about Labour. A party I do have strong opinions about being an ex-member, yet I manage to not say "whatabout Labour" in every post critical of govt parties.

My rambling point being that criticism of govt and responding to criticism of Govt parties is valid, regardless of who is in govt. Responding to such criticism with "whatabout SF" drags thread off topic and is, imo, designed to shut down discussion.

Calling people like myself who come in and say "hang on a second - SF night have done this thing but so did FG/ SF member might have said this but look here at where a FF member said the same/ or SF members broke lockdown rules at that funeral but so did govt minister as this funeral" shinnerbots is not on.

It is possible to "defend" - as in say "hang on a second, that is unfair/untrue" or "can we stick to the topic and stop with the whataboutry" - a party without voting for that party.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448448#Comment_118448448

I've done the same on many occasions myself, Bannasidhe. I've also been called a Shinnerbot on multiple occasions for my trouble.

My point wasn't an all encompassing one, suggesting that anyone who makes any posts that could be seen as defending SF is a Shinnerbot. I was referring to a very specific kind of poster, who doesn't seem to post about anything but SF, will defend absolutely anything that they say or do, but will adamantly claim to not be a SF voter.

One thing I'd say we can all agree on is that the amount of whataboutery is ridiculous. It seems half the time that posters in threads about the government only want to talk about SF......and posters in threads about SF only want to talk about the government parties!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448448#Comment_118448448

it's an endemic reaction across political discussion on the site tbh

but criticism of the government- this isnt now a reference to yourself or any one poster- often comes in the form that suggests that anyone but the current govt of the day would solve all of the simple and obvious issues facing them in a vacuum of perfection and bliss. the second other form it takes is standard SF bot cant right from the head office.

setting aside the obvious and co-ordinated shinner movement on boards, a lot of attempts to say "well, hang on, yes the current lot havent sorted this and they should have, but its not a simple issue and no alternative is actually as perfect as you seem to be suggesting" gets as quickly dismissed as FG shilling as your depiction above of being dismissed as a shinnerbot

SF are currently the most popular single party in the state, it's clear that they are going to have genuine followers on boards in some proportion to that, but "arguments against the government" have the convenience often (again not in any specific case or from every critic, to be clear as im responding to you here) of simply being hacks without any viable alternative approach, or one grounded in the rhetoric of "i would simply solve housing" at best and even further divorced from reality at worst.

This is quite the normal tension to be expected when the main opposition of the day have never been in government and the current govt have a party such as FG that have clearly been in too long to avoid heavy blame for the state of housing (for instance) and another that should never have gotten back in after the job they done before.

So- apologies for roundabout- with the above normal expected avenues of argument available and the obvious opposition bonus available, it's quite quite striking how the SF co-ordinated approach on boards (and other media) still, still manages to be about nefarious, duplicitous, shady means obvious to all but denied to the hilt by the actors involved even as they decry how unfair it is that they got caught.

anyone seeking to find a source for the toxic state of affairs in political debate in current affairs/after hours should be looking at the two (?) posters banned as a result of this thread and how they have been allowed to wreck the gaff, basically.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448545#Comment_118448545

Absolutely. The defend "my" party at all costs is ... irritating.

However, it's not just SF this happens with. There are a few vocal posters who defend govt parties to the hilt - even when those govt parties admit they made a mistake. Those are the posters who like to sling "shinnerbot" at anyone who says "hang on a second".

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438550#Comment_118438550

Congrats on what's been a very informative thread. The best explanation of a previosly hidden world of penalties.

Can you clarify how the points are decided on and how an offender will know how many have been allocated.

I assume they are kept on a panel only mods can see.

Thanks

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448605#Comment_118448605

I agree that sock puppet posters are a menace.

However, I also think anyone who defends at all costs (regardless of who that party is) makes a mess of threads.

Too often, even after (for example) FG have acknowledged a boo-boo there are some posters who will persist in their original defensive position. The result of this is post after post of Panto dialogue. Oh No they Didn't! Oh Yes they Did (and admitted it). We saw it with SF's Inkgate. We saw it with Leo giving a confidential report to a friend. Same meat different gravy.

So you end up with people like me - who votes for parties other that FF/FG/SF - not bothering anymore and threads get polarised as the alternative voices just give up.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448448#Comment_118448448

Can you not see from your post that your response to whatabouttery is more whatabouttery? You can't fight fire with fire while complaining that you can't see for all the smoke. What would happen if we all responded to the "What about when SF also did x" posts by saying "That's true. Anyway..." and then discussing the actual topic? Would it not just remove that weapon from their arsenal? They can only deflect from a topic if we let them.

We can't control others behavior but we can control our reaction to it.