Spider-Man: No Way Home *spoilers from post 185*

Many might not agree, but I felt this film and concept was a very convoluted way of bringing the Green Goblin/Norman Osborn back into the fold, and gauging popular reaction as to whether to go down the route of giving this Spidey his own world Goblin.

Always said half the reason Marvel wanted Spidermans properties back was for Osborn, he's Marvel's Joker. This film was always going to be popular, but when the Green Goblin was announced, anticipation went through the roof. Like Joker for DC, Green Goblin gets people in the doors

I think maybe you are not aware of the appeal of Spiderman himself.

the character and imagery are insanely popular - just look at the merchandising.

Marvel wanted to use SpiderMan for Spider-Man first, then the villains.

Spiderman has been in the MCU for years with no mention of Norman, Oscorp, or Goblin and they could have used him from the start. not only did they not use him, they’ve established that he doesn’t exist “here”.

they could have introduced Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. with a host of new actors at any time - no-one would have been screaming her heresy.

I think this film was a “convoluted way” to tell this story with these particular actors.

and what exactly is convoluted about the story? None of it is difficult to understand.

Yeah, it is similarly why I don't see Sony cutting off their nose to spite their face by trying to grab Spider-man back from the working relationship they have with Marvel. Sony are making an absolute fortune from the arrangement, even before taking into account the other movies they're able to push.

Absolutely loved the movie and the reset it has given the character. I enjoyed seeing the kid dealing with Stark tech and aliens but it wasn't sustainable given the direction of the movies are taking and bringing him back to the neighbourhood without the Avengers is a great move and sets up a whole variety of potential directions for him to go and fun characters to interact with.

I saw a few earlier posts questioning the action scenes - I don't know enough about technical directing or camerawork but I found the final fight with the Green Goblin on the shield incredibly raw and more impactful than the previous Sony Spider-man efforts.

An interesting comment I picked up on was from Norman when he said he woke up in a weird new world where his Oscorp didn't exist, even though I'm sure Oscorp was shown in one of these films.

Anyway I don't think they're going to go back to Norman anytime soon, I think the symbiote, Kingpin and more street level villains are going to be the focus of Holland's remaining films. Maybe even Ned as Hobgoblin will be the goblin of the arc.

Batman is DC’s big name - he is massively popular. Movies are rebooted, many animated series, the merchandise, etc …

Spiderman is that for Marvel.

Superman and Iron Man will never come close to the amount of cash Bats and Spidey bring in

while it is possible that they could introduce new MCU Goblin, Doc Ock, etc. for Holland I think there is little point - No Way Home gave these characters a great story and Spidey had plenty more villains

I also hope Spidey’s future is saving people and the city rather than the whole world. He has saved the world - now back to crime fighting.

Feige and Pascal have already been discussing the future of the character and Holland has said he doesn’t want to still be playing Parker in his 30’s and that he would like to see Miles Morales take over.

I would like to see Holland do another trilogy at least (some crossovers would be good) and Morales could be introduced in the final film. I had been hoping for a SpiderMan/Hulk team up

Not even close.

I would say Wolverine is the second most popular but he is no “challenge” - no even a speck on Spider-Man’s popularity, the money he makes, etc.

Really don't think the audience will buy into Holland's Spider-man as much if he is in the MCU and somehow never crosses paths with other characters or issues faced within that universe (sure Spider-man is a huge draw but him interacting with IM/Strange/Fury gave it a completely different feel than the previous ones). What they did leaves that option but if they wanted a hard cut they would have needed to pull him into another universe, like Venom's.

Will throw the young characters in spoilers in case anyone hasn't been watching shows or knows what is due out (not going into the comic book side of things):

Not saying all of the above will come together but there is a lot to work with and many would make sense to cross paths with Parker and plenty of interesting directions they could go with the dynamics.

Oh interesting, that's not how I read it at all, they barely greeted each other and she said something about how she observed people which I thought was odd. I'm going to watch the movie again anyway so I'll pay closer attention to that scene.

Florence Pugh is only 25 and as far as I recall Yalena is the same if not younger.

No Way Home takes place the same year as Far from Home but I don’t know where that puts it in regards to the rest of the Phase so Parker and Bishop could be the same age. I forgot about the other young characters.

To be honest I don’t want to see the heroes getting into romances with each other. Dullest thing imaginable. Black Widow and Banner in Age of Ultron was just pointless.

They were strangers. All previous events happened had Peter not existed. Read brand new Day

What numbers did Venom do at the box office? Venom is my favourite Spidey character. Green Goblin is bigger. Marvel and Spidermans ultimate arch nemises. He's Marvel's Joker, always was, and will be

Ned and MJ are not strangers.

they were talking about getting into MIT, they go to the same school.

all previous events and interactions still happened. Doctor Strange did not change history (because he can’t do that) he just altered the world’s mind to forget Peter Parker.

This is why Happy still remembers May, and why May is still dead.

History has not changed

The two of yous got me with the Happy thing. But I think that's an outlier surely for the sake of the story? The concept was brand new Day, which means events could only occur, that happened, had Peter existed.

Unlikely MJ and Ned would have crossed paths to that degree, had Peter not existed

Exactly. Hole in the brand new Day story

General perception. I think anyone would concede the hype around the movie went from mild interest from Marvel fatigue, to renewed interest the minute the Green Goblin was announced.

The fact Marvel and Sony clearly made a point of him being the showdown in this very movie?

The fact they made him kill a decisive characters from the off, to show the audience, who may be new, this is the embodiment of evil, the Goblin in all guises is the one who makes the decisive kill, 3 movie series' in a row. Will I continue?

You have made yourself someone to not take seriously.

you can’t explain Happy still knowing May so you ignore it.

Em, from the Amazing Spiderman series (Superior Spiderman/ new volume Amazing Spiderman etc.), that justify my opinion?

There's been many huge stories, crossovers, in the comics for many years. I'm talking about the fact severel can be related to one character, Osborn. Not every time, but a good percentage of times.

I'm a Daredevil fan too, for years. If you ever think Osborn took orders from the Kingpin, if not having an ulterior motive, to work under him, then you don't have a clue

I understand there are plenty of holes that can be poked in the final spell but it stands up relatively well me. Everything beforehand happened but it pulled all memory of Peter out of their minds so they each fill in their gaps. Our own brains constantly so a similar thing for bits we forget everyday - it is why witness statements can be so untrustworthy.

Based on Loki I don't think the curing is an issue - there are an infinite number of multiverses, the 'cured' villains just go back to a new divergent stream. The OT and AT are still as they were.