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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    There are far more pressing issues in many of those countries than a virus with a relatively low mortality rate that puts a lot of pressure on the health system (mostly as a fully integrated health system doesn't exist in many). There is also other medicines that they could do with (that we take for granted) that would improve mortality rates considerably, e.g. penicillin, Ivermectin for treating river blindness, malaria vaccines. There really isn't a scenario anymore where a vaccine not taken in Europe, US, China, Russia, would have gone to Africa, if people are interested that way, contribute to COVAX, or other aid systems which work on not just getting the medicine there but also administering it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Ireland will be in a full lockdown very shortly, just like a few lads in here very definitely said would not happen.

    I have to say I really don't see the point of a lockdown if Omicron is as transmissible as reported. It would need to last for months otherwise every single time you reopen the cases will shoot up again within days. And it would need to be very severely enforced otherwise it will just spread anyway even with the reduced contacts. In a country that is sick of restrictions and no longer trusting the government people will flout the lockdown terms and cases will shoot up within days.

    It is a fools errand if you ask me, but here we are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    Yep. cloth masks, particularly the 1 ply kind that some people wear don't seem to do much. Probably better than nothing though. N95s and FFp2/3s look to offer far more protection. A recent german study showed if both an infected and non infected persons wore ffp2s indoors the chance of spread within the hour was something like 1/1000. They work.

    Taiwan, Japan and korea have managed to control their pandemic far better than any other countries utilizing high quality masks as their primary weapon.

    Here in ireland people just throw on any mask, and then there's the percentage of morons who cant even be bothered to put in over their nose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    I naively thought that kind of stuff was all behind us. Ugh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Its at fault for us staying under restrictions the whole year though. I think restrictions now would be more tolerable if we had non restricted times this year and knew we'd have non restricted times in the future.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Worse than NOTHING.

    Why would the HSE's OWN report in 2009 set out clear unambiguous requirements and targets regarding Critical Care and ICU requirements for the country if,AT THAT JUNCTURE it was'nt already an urgent requirement ?

    These people had 11 YEARS before Covid arrived,and in those 11 years of constantly expanding funding,they decided to do NOTHING !

    Is nobody in your world now allowed to ask WHY ? or seek an explanation as to WHY action was NOT sanctioned then,and WHO took the decisions to do NOTHING back then ?

    As you said,"It takes along time"....how damn "long" do you want ? 5,10,15.....ah sure why not say 1,000 years,and then sit back and watch the current HSE crew "start work" on ensuring whatever target you pick will indeed become a MULTI-MULTI-MULTI Year plan,with only those involved in the Planning Disciplines seeing any reward,as the Professional Fees & Charges,and Consultancy Work renumeration head towards the next galaxy.

    To sit there in December 2021, and type that our Current Government have STARTED WORK on (yet another) multi-year plan quite simply shows a reality short-circuit of incredible proportions.

    People will,eventually wake up from the current well planned and instituted Torpor,and start asking the questions which have lain unasked for nearly 20 years.

    If these remain unasked & unanswered,then forget about regaining any form of normality,and we can continue as we generally prefer...as sure'n it could be worse ! 😰


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Hmm, Germany and Austria have mandated ffp2 masks for ages now. Their case counts don't really say much for them working tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,271 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Shockingly late with the booster roll out. Ireland done great to be fair, but can you imagine some of the Eastern European countries and even worse the USA if this thing turns out bad.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They already have this in place via surge capacity and private hospital capacity, those with COVID won't go untreated.

    The problem is that to use that capacity (as it's an emergency system) they need to stop other health treatments, which means lockdowns and restrictions, so it's not like it comes for free.

    There is also the problem of what the correct capacity is, if we were at the same capacity as, say, Germany, it would still get stretched by COVID and cause restrictions come in, unless you run all the time at +30% and pay for that, when 97 years out of a century, it goes unneeded.

    The other aspect is that Ireland has done particularly well economically compared to most countries, despite restrictions, the PUP and measures cost a lot, but our high GDP growth masks it and is less proportionately than other countries (so the ECB will manage printing of money, but Ireland stays in relatively good health compared to others who've had to spend comparatively more during the pandemic), while we give out, rightly, about restrictions, we're also best placed to take advantage post pandemic, so why would politicians put that at risk (assuming things are back to normality by next election, which isn't a given). The macro view of everything is quite interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Fair points. I think Omicron all but guarantees that things will be back to normal by the next election. It's so ultra-contagious that, whether it's as severe as Delta or not, it will have swept the country in short order. So we will either have endemic Covid with lots of additional deaths or endemic covid with few additional deaths.

    I think (sincerely - I'm not being glib) that a lot of people are going to need some support to move from pandemic covid to endemic covid, because the immense propaganda over the last two years has created a "stop all deaths from covid in particular at ANY cost" outlook in some people, as well as the pernicious idea that it is right to attribute "fault" in the passing of communicable disease. Which is not their fault, but people are always going to be dying of covid (even if Omicron is a "common cold" as the most optimistic assessments seem to suggest - plenty of people die from pneumonia after a common cold every year).

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    There are many many things the health experts would probably do differently or phrase things better with the benefit of hindsight, but the one thing I think could have helped ward off the current and justified anger many are feeling is if they hadn’t made the vaccine(not including the booster) as the silver bullet and made it sound like once the vaccine was rolled out, we’d get back to normal. The fact there’s now boosters needed(boosters aren’t unique to covid vaccines) and people aren’t seeing the return to normal, they are questioning of the whole vaccine strategy which will hurt our way out of this, because people will ask why should they bother.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But MilkyToast, they (nphet) don't want any covid deaths. So even when it's endemic they'll still be hugely concerned. They were hugelt concerned last summer when practically no one as dying of a covid-related death.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, exactly. Never ever addressed by those who swear by the things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Captain Barnacles


    Cases going down in Holland for awhile now and yet they still add the lockdown ... crazy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,241 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    I don’t know anyone who’s angry or questioning anything.

    I find it’s the more educated Irish Times fair trade woke types who are particularly nasty and obnoxious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So Holland will go into lockdown from Sunday until January 14th and Paris is cancelling its New Year’s Eve fireworks display presumably to stop people from gathering in large crowds in that city. It’s a shame that things seem to be sliding backwards but it’s not a total shock either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Well frustration then if that’s more an appropriate word. You can’t deny people are frustrated and fed up over this whole thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    I passed the local pub at 5 this evening and the place was hopping, it was absolutely infuriating to not be there with them



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Apparently Pfizer are saying this can last until 2024.

    Two more years to flatten the curve. #HoldTheLine., #We'reAllInThisTogether



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,042 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    You have a better source than that? Wikipedia anybody can log in and write anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    You'd think Macron would be treading lightly with this nonsense since he's up for re-election next year and Le Pen is on his heels. Plus he had two near escapes from the Yellow Vesters getting their hands on him previously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,271 ✭✭✭brickster69


    A very interesting debate between the editor of the Spectator and a SAGE model guy. **** me !


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    We're all very impressed with you.

    The link to the Reuters article is the fourth line in the GP article.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Oh No. I might get a cold. Whatever will I do?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,042 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Sorry for bursting your bubble that you and the OP dumping that crap here lap up anything without any critical thinking.

    Think it's important other users reading these posts understand where this stuff comes from.



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