Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

18-12-2021 2:24am

The Trump point could be come extremely negative if there’s ever any connection found between the U.K. and Trump’s election.

There was already Cambridge Analytica and there’s a lot of crossover between various characters and organisations on the fringes of politics.

Hell hath no fury like an American public waking up with a hangover… and I think we are only seeing the very early stages of the Trump unravelling. That’s going to get extremely messy as 2022 and 2023 roll on. 🍿

18-12-2021 3:32am

I don't know why they'd really think they could sign a deal with the US under Trump. A trade deal couldn't be an executive order, and Trump's Northern Ireland envoy issued a warning about the border. If that was the plan all along, they wouldn't have extended Brexit until the end of Trump's term when he couldn't do it.

It's possible they thought something rosy was going to happen, I suppose in the same way they thought Brexit would be a doddle, but it wasn't going to happen. Trump was so America First, and his supporters the same, a trade deal with the UK wouldn't be worth the fight to get it through the Ways and Means committee. And even then, services have to be done effectively state by state. It's nothing like being in the EU.

I'll never understand how people can consume so much news and media from the US and not understand that both sides of the house have strong ties with Ireland. It's like people have become to overwhelmed with information they resort to Democrats good EU good Republicans bad Brexit bad.

McGiver · 18-12-2021 12:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328397#Comment_118328397

I've been telling since 2016 that the UK is becoming "Western Russia". Yes, it's slightly exaggerated but not far away from the truth and it's been moving to that direction - oligarchic pseudo-democracy with a facade of democracy, government of corrupted liars and thieves and, country with a very strong pro-government propaganda press, a country with a nuclear arsenal and post-imperial heritage. There are many parallels to Russia in the fact.

You could call this UK regime a Western version of Orbán's Hungary or Kaczynski's Poland if you think the parallel with Russia goes too far...

breezy1985 · 18-12-2021 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341228#Comment_118341228

Trump's trade partners usually got exactly what they wanted from him, he was a very weak negotiator.

Even allowing for that there is no trade deal from any country or all that is gonna make up for the loss through Brexit

Strazdas · 18-12-2021 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342029#Comment_118342029

Yes, I think their lack of a written constitution and their disastrous FPTP system leaves them extremely vulnerable. Virtually everyone in the Brexit wing of the Tory Party and those who write for and control the right wing press is a wrong 'un and not to be trusted. British democracy could remain secure only as long as fairly decent and respectable people remained at the helm.....this shower are dragging it down to never seen before depths.

McGiver · 18-12-2021 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342303#Comment_118342303

Exactly, I see the FPTP as the primary reason. If they had some sort of a PR the lack of a codified constitution is not such a big deal. However, the FPTP and absence of a proper constitution is an explosive combo which needed only only time to end up as it did. It was not a matter of if but when it would happen. Gutter press, social media amplification, Cambridge Analytica, Russian disinformation war all greatly contributed but FPTP was key. Without FPTP Brexit and Johnsonism would have been much harder yo achieve and likely not even possible.

ArmaniJeanss · 18-12-2021 8:54pm

Being reported that David Frost has quit the UK government. Quite the shock, be interesting to see how this develops. Presumably his successor will be one to really shake up the EU and make them see sense (as the Express will doubtless declare)

Brexit minister Lord Frost walks out on Boris | Daily Mail Online

Strazdas · 18-12-2021 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344106#Comment_118344106

Interesting to see if this is over Brexit / the Protocol or if he has had a falling out with Johnson on some other issue. Reports say he is unhappy with the 'political direction' the UK Govt is taking.

Probably good news from the point of view of the Protocol. Most observers felt Frost was a terrible negotiator, anti-EU / Europe and a not particularly pleasant person to have to deal with.

Edit : it's not the Protocol that's bugging him, rather all the other stuff like Covid, net zero and tax rises.

Seth Brundle · 18-12-2021 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344106#Comment_118344106

Britains Brexit Minister has resigned in protest at the terrible Brexit deal that he, as Brexit Minister, negotiated.

McGiver · 18-12-2021 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344106#Comment_118344106

Interesting development...

What happens now?

Šefčovič must be exhaling in jubilation, he can get a break, at least for a while. Can someone worse than Frost replace Frost? 😎

Jizique · 18-12-2021 9:10pm

He made a speech a couple of weeks ago decrying the high tax direction of the govt and extolling regulatory independence; he is very popular with the party members due to his aggressive approach and I would not be surprised to see him look for the next safe seat (he would have fancied this week's one); I suspect he has his sights set on the top job

GM228 · 18-12-2021 9:13pm

Could this be the nail on the head?

https://twitter.com/DamgaardKenn/status/1472297984624840715?t=MOdaD5DkaaXj9LjXgj0QJg&s=19

18-12-2021 9:19pm

That's surprising but only because I hadn't seen the possibility really talked about.

Makes sense I suppose. Other reasons will be given but a lot of it would be Brexit and his discomfort at how it played out.

Headshot · 18-12-2021 9:21pm

The chaos of the UK government that keeps on giving. Better than any reality tv.

maebee · 18-12-2021 9:23pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10324429/Brexit-minister-Lord-Frost-walks-Boris.html#comments

saying he's 'disillusioned' with the Government's Covid Plan B restrictions, vaccine passports, tax hikes and the cost of Net Zero green agenda

Lord Brexit is blaming everything under the sun except the real reason.

Strazdas · 18-12-2021 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344192#Comment_118344192

Is he even a member of the Conservative Party? He's never actually stood for election for them at any level, not even as a local councillor.

18-12-2021 9:40pm

Must be a big protocol u turn coming if Frost has resigned. He talked tough for so long he couldn’t face a big climb down.

Going Strong · 18-12-2021 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344358#Comment_118344358

I would think that he doesn't want to be linked to Johnson any longer now that Boris is a dead man walking.

Just as Frost switched from, if not a Europhile, but at least a Euro-pragmatist when Brexit was the only game in town, he'll now portray himself as the reddest of raw meat Small Statists to keep in with the ERG elements in the Conservative party.

Let's face it, it will be p1ss-easy for someone like Frost to say that he could have done X,Y or Z about the NIP or the limitations of the "Oven Ready" deal but Blundering Boris, who never reads a policy document let alone understands one, was against it. Who'll believe Boris The Liar?

Banana Republic 1 · 18-12-2021 10:18pm

Is frosts resignation yet another dead cat from Boris

Sam Russell · 18-12-2021 10:23pm

Or a dead cat from Frost.

NI protocol is going badly for him, so he resigns before anyone notices his finger prints were all over it. His tough talking is only going nowhere, but badly, and the end of that road is approaching fast.

Leroy42 · 18-12-2021 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344552#Comment_118344552

Doubt it. Frost is Johnsons Brexit lead. He was able to run Brexit with little or no scrutiny.

This is a major blow for Brexit. Frost, if one recalls, was appointed because TM and Ollie Robbins had been too eager to please the EU and Frost was going to hammer them. And he was clearly very anti EU.

IMO Johnson or someone close, has seen the dead end they are facing and looking for a bit of back tracking, and that would have gone down badly with Frost.

While no doubt this will be spun as something different, and I see the excuse is Covid reg and tax rises, Frost was in the cabinet for one reason only, he should have no position on those things as, according to his own Tory colleagues, he should be ignored as he wasn't democratically elected.

His replacement, and how fast they line one up, will be very telling in which direction Johnson is planning on going.

18-12-2021 10:51pm

He got Brexit done!.nothing to do with caving in on the ecj

wexfordman2 · 18-12-2021 11:14pm

Ladies and gents, font be getting to excited over frosty resignation letter, I am betting he turns up in Brussels next Jan as the british brexit negotiator claiming the resignation letter that frosty wrote and peppa accepted needs to be withdrawn immediately as it was a bad resignation letter.

The EU suspect the resignation letter has been written in bad faith, and are reserving judgment until they actually see frosty has actually resigned

18-12-2021 11:29pm

I'd say the chances of being a Tory Leader, without being an MP are slim to none. So, it's a bit of a wasted flounce off and toys thrown out of the pram moment.