What would you do if you saw a stranger walking on your land with a dog on a lead?
BTW, I from the city.
Ask them what there doing and then politely ask them to leave and not return again. Just say its insurance if they tripped and fell or something, public liabilty etc , cant be on the land.
As someone who has first hand experience with losses from Neospora, I'd be asking them to vacate
Depends on the person and dog. And depends on the field in question. And depends on the time of year.
A certain type with a lurcher would be ran.
A stranger with a Labrador and seems a genuine sort In winter, no real sweat. In spring I might have a word to say not to ever enter if there are animals in the field or similar and mention that as dog droppings can cause abortions in cows etc also. Reminder on gates etc.
They would be escorted to the nearest exit and politely asked not to return. I note the question informs us that the dog is on a lead, we've had many incidences of people having dogs on leads - until out of sight. This farm is in a scenic area so we often have randomers walking around. We've also had enough of the killings and maulings of sheep, and quite enough of the ever present worry asking ourselves if there is or isn't a dog with those people off in the distance. Over the decades we have learned signs don't work, foreign tourists in fairness tend not to have dogs, equally Irish people tend not to possess the ability to read English.
These are some of the ingredients which lead to raised tempers. It's all liability for the land owner, from the livestock worrying and personal injury point of view.
(Also if the dog so happens to get off its leash and worries the cattle the farmer is within their rights to shoot it, as doing so protects their animals and the farmers livelihood. That's a rather fine deterrent.)
I’m getting closer to the town the whole time with developments coming out my direction. Suck to the teeth of people coming out walking with dogs. I’m a sheep farmer so had instances of Sheep killed and ran heavy in lamb. More and more are becoming very belligerent and lack of respect for property owner including using a field right beside my parents house.
Aa Herdquitter has said, they would be escorted to the nearest exit and told that they are not to return. It would be explained to them that this is my work place and only invited guests (contractors etc) are required to be here.
Why would anyone think that I would want the liability of them and their dogs on my private property?
Had 2 lads from the Village out walking the dogs and doing a bit of hunting, I challenged them on why they were on my land only to be told they were in the local Gun club and didn't need my permission.
I’d be reporting them ASAP to local gun club. Gun club or no gun club they absolutely need permission of the landowner. Ridiculous perception that landowners signed over shooting rights to gun clubs years ago still seems to persist. Common sense would dictate that landowner is king.
and btw, I’m chairman of our local gun club and it infuriates me when members still think they can shoot wherever they like.
Go in and walk around their garden with a pet cow and see how they would like it.
I know, it's not the same thing. ....
It's not to far off..you could go into their garden and say you are a humane bird hunter after a rare species of finch spotted in the neighbourhood but it's cool as you are a member of the local chapter of bird snappers ireland a non profit organisation dedicated to the pursuit of the most high definition photos of our feathered friends ...and btw don't worry about the lad in your kitchen snaffling all the ginger nuts ....hes a friend...scool
I wasn't sure as it was a place I got from an Uncle and thought maybe he had given them the ok in the past. Turned out they were chancing it and they were not even members of the Club having been refused entry
I'd be tempted to march them to the furthest exit possible :P
This is how i handle trespassers on my land OP...
"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher
Insurance not a issue. If they are on your lads they are considered a trespassers, you owe no duty of care to them unless you intentionally do something to harm them
Or unless you have a building/other structure on your land that isn't identified with warning signs and fenced to appropriate standards to prevent possible injury?
Mm, not so sure
"It is advisable to ensure that there are signs on your land warning of potential dangers, especially in areas of the land where it is foreseeable that people might cross."
They started, or tried to start a GC in this area. After a long weekend and a longer spin up from Kerry I just about made the start of the formation meeting. My participation ended the same night when the proposed chairman said it'd be up to individual members whether they sought landowners permission to go shooting on lands.................. or not.
In another incident, I was genuinely almost shot on my own farm. Two lads out after woodcock in a little gully with lots of furze. I heard a dog so went to investigate, no idea the two were there. Bird flies out over my head, followed by two shotgun blasts. They couldn't initially hear the **** and blinding due to ear protectors, but they heard plenty of it once they saw me.
The same two were ran from three different parcels of land the same day.
A Dr from a nearby town to a property I own, decided my land and woods were a nice place to do some shooting. He had an accident - I have always presumed he stumbled, as it's rough ground - and managed to shoot himself - close range blast from a shotgun. I gather he nearly bled out before rescue arrived and he could be taken on an at least 1hr trip to the nearest major hospital.
I was half expecting some solicitor to get in contact and accuse me of not removing every rock and filling every hole so some trespasser poaching wouldn't trip.
Not a word.
I would almost love someone to come after me on that one. One situation where the incredible burden of a SAC designation could be of use.
Not my property, mate, go talk to the real owners. Good luck taking on the government.
One thing for sure, designations illustrate the extremely weak state of property rights in Ireland. People think they have rights, until the state decides otherwise. Interesting contrast with the 30x30 / America the Beautiful designation strategy in the US, where they actually DO have property rights.
As for trespassers, I'd still like to err on the side of not getting letters tbh.
irrespective of whether they are trespassing or invited guests, if they can prove negligent on your part you will be liable.
Am I right in saying that in England a hill walker had an accident and fell and sued the land owner and the judge threw it out of court because it would stop other hill walkers availing of country walking ,ambling....I'm sure I read that afew years ago?
That reminds me of another case in Ireland where it was Coilte or someone else being sued, what ever happened with that does anyone know? A woman tripped and damaged her knee, I know there was a big thread here about it but good luck finding it in this new disaster of a site...
The law on uninvited guests trespassers is quite clear. You owe no duty of care to them. You may not do anything to deliberately harm them but you being negligent is not in play as you owe them ''no duty of care''.
Minors U16 ( unaccompanied I think but not sure) are not included in the legislation. The only other provisio may be regulations such as around uncovered slurry tanks, if you had no covers on agitation points or when building works are in play.
The legislation has proven very robust. It is not just used in farmland, it has also stopped cases where nefarious activity was being carried out and an individual hurt themselves. The legal people tried to drive a coach and four through it but any case where it applies has been lost.
The two most high profile was a person who slipped down a cliff and broke bones where a high court judge ( the first test case) gave damages but these were overturned by the Supreme Court.
In another case a person slipped taking a shortcut out of a car park that was regularly used and no damages were awarded( I think this was a circuit court case)
Negligence was deliberately excluded from the legislation (lawyers lobbied for it to be included) but the legislation is clear it's ''no duty of care'' as long as you do not deliberately attempt to harm people. Deliberate harm would be where you dug a hole on a path and covered it with grass or bushes so that it became a trap or if you connected a fence wire to mains electricity to stop people entering your land.
There is no onus on you to provide signs or fence off area that may be dangerous unless it is covered by regulation.
I wish people who don't understand the legislation would stop interpreting it.
Proper order too.
I think that was up above the lake in Glendalough where Coilte had put in railway sleeper type pathways on the walks/trails and the case went against her
this would certainly contradict some of your points above in regard to duty of care and also liability. Your earlier comment above states that ‘insurance is not an issue’. Any landowner would be very naive to think like that.
This case which the circuit court heard confirms my point which simply stated that you will be liable if found negligent.
unless for course Bass you argue that the circuit court should not be interrupting law........ it’s irrelevant that the high court overturned it as that’s why Appeal processes are in place in any jurisdiction. High court regularly overturn decisions on appeal.
Going back to gun clubs and hunters on land. All gun club members are insured with the NARGC which is a full comprehensive insurance covering individuals, their shooting party, their dog and any damage they may do to livestock or property and they are generally very good at paying out. All members are obliged to carry their membership card with them when out hunting. The card is the size of a credit card and contains their name , club name and date of birth so simply ask to see their card in the first instance will confirm who they are and if they are members of their local club
NARGC are typically very good to pay out and pay out quickly. However, like any insurance there is a few small prints that they must adhere to:
Lasting piece, if as a landowner you’re in doubt, put them out
Eventually, It had to be appealed.
the woman in that case had a solicitor husband which is why I'm guessing it made it to court...but I still wouldn't like to pay for a court defence.