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Boards.ie update - 25th November 2021

2

Comments

  • Boards.ie Employee Posts: 149 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Odhran
    Boards.ie Employee


    Hi again

    I have pulled out questions / comments below - if I missed anything let me know.

    Q: I have one question - where have you been?

    Still very much here.  There has been a lot going on in the background that I can't go into but dealing with Vanilla etc is where I have had to focus my attention.  I was pretty active and did indeed step in when needed - Niamh is an excellent community manager and has my backing 100%.  We are both fully in the loop of all issues and in the event of me needing to get involved with a specific issue Niamh links me in straight away.  I said a few times I would post when I had something to say - unfortunately that took longer than I hoped.

    Q: Charges per pull request really doesn't seem like a host that is worth it at all. Surely that should be bundled in with the base fees...

    They don't want us firing in PR's for every small change so in part it is to discourage that.  Also however we don't want to be doing it either - the longer we keep making a bespoke platform the more we will have to maintain it.  Ultimately we want to move to a more generic version but that will be a longer journey.

    Comment: Search isn't broken. Vanilla has a great search if it's implemented correctly.

    • Thanks for the feedback here (and on other issues) @adsbygoogle - unfortunately there are inconsistent results.  However there are some fixes being rolled out for that this week I believe.

    Q: On functionality, what about the option to mark forums read? Is this on the way? That should be basic functionality on any site. I know it can be done at the moment but not from within the forum.

    • We have this in the hopper.  Once we get the current set of updates out we will give some timelines on that.

    Comment: I'd be very surprised if the money saved by not maintaining the old site is enough to bridge the gap between the massive loss in user base.

    - I will update separately on traffic but it's clear that we had a massive drop in activity but growth coming back month on month. We switched to Google Analytics 4 which has had an impact however we are starting to see growth here also.  Irrespective of the impact the change had we need something else to boost revenue and are working on some projects along those lines.

     Comment: As the issues are being worked through, as Odhran has done a welcome u turn on PR and decided to "come clean" (and immediately prompted a warmer reaction) what you say about mods is spot on. It's the single biggest issue here.

    • I appreciate there has been a long delay between this update and my last but there is no change in PR.  I hope that you can see our transparency since the start both in terms of what we were doing, the issues we encountered and our ongoing plan to keep working through them.

     There are a good few points raised here also about modding which are probably not for this post. From a platform perspective - Mods have not had anything near the tools that they had before and as a result have had a much tougher job.  We have made some steps towards fixing that with the ability to Mod on a per forum basis.

    I will touch base again shortly - we hope to be able too get a beta project shortly to kickstart our first non ad revenue initiative.

    Thank you all for your feedback and ongoing support of Boards.

    Many thanks

    Odhran



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Appreciate the detailed response. Good to get some of that additional info.

    I can't speak for others, but I think its fair to say mod tools has to be one of the highest priorities. The reasons why are well known at this stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,590 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I wonder if the stock theme would have been more useable out of the box than the custom boards theme that was implemented. Especially on mobile which I assume the majority of users generally are these days.

    I also wonder if the overhead of migrating all the old data outweighs the cost of migrating it and the value to current users. Since you can't reliably search it, or add to old threads.

    What's done is done. But those are still valid questions. Are customization and maintaining legacy data viable going forward with reduced resources. As others have already said the core of the site is the moderation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    How did PROC manage it seamlessly, yet ye couldn't?

    This platform is still in bits yet you seem more focused on some unspecified beta to kickstart revenue. I get that this needs to be done but why not get the basics right first?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    Also, who own Boards Software Ltd.? If an investment was made to keep the lights on, it would be nice to know who it was.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why you think you need to know that is beyond me, what purpose would it serve?

    But, if its that important you can get a load of info right here once you pay for it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Posted by Odhran:

    They don't want us firing in PR's for every small change so in part it is to discourage that. Also however we don't want to be doing it either - the longer we keep making a bespoke platform the more we will have to maintain it. Ultimately we want to move to a more generic version but that will be a longer journey.


    What does this mean? Isn't that where you started with Vanilla and have now spent the last 4/5 months trying to beat it into a usable shape? Is there ANOTHER migration on the horizon? Within Vanilla or to another platform again?

    That can't be a serious consideration after the last 5 months?



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,497 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I am probably one of the few around here that could afford investing in businesses

    The dot-com boom is over. It's been over for very many years. This "business" has never made any money. Odhran has most certainly invested significant sums (certainly significant for many around here) of his own money just to keep the place running. He also presumably hopes he will eventually get some return on that investment. I wish him every luck on that. I am happy to pay annual subs and indeed take adverts if it helps keep the company afloat

    One thing I would say is you really could not pay me enough to take this "business" on. There is no way anyone with an ounce of financial sense would pay anything for the site. Without Odrhan many of us may have been on Facebook pleading for someone to at a minimum bring back historic content.

    And I post this with zero knowledge of the current financing arrangements. Accounts for the current company are not yet available and we see nothing of any of that at Admin level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,524 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    After seeing that post yesterday, I got to wondering about this obsession with trying to replicate the old boards within a framework that clearly just doesn't fit.

    Is it not an option to just run with whatever "look" Vanilla is meant for, and can run without adaptations and endless bodging? Which seems to mean fixing one thing while breaking two others.

    We're all big boys and girls here, we can adapt to a new-look site (even me, and I'm absolutely allergic to change!) - would take a bit of getting used to, but it would have to be better than the current set up which would drive you to drink sometimes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    But not every user is a big boy or girl, even minor changes at times have caused ridiculous over the top reactions including old playground favourites like calling for people to lose their jobs and calling them names, constant 'threats' to leave, hyperbolic nonsense and good old fashioned whinging. Look back at the the threads when the new boards went live, absolutely unreal level of over reaction.

    By the way, as @Beasty said above, I'd also be willing to pay a sub, but would not support anything that restricts non sub payers from full functionality of the site.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    It's the feedback forum.

    I would expect criticism om a feedback forum. Clearly many are unhappy with the changeover and the modding, that is not just evident from the posts here but because the owner himself concedes there is a "massive drop in activity". Obviously, people should be civil and abuse is unacceptable, but criticism is valid, legitimate and this is precisely the place to air it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Agreed. To be honest, I think if followed forums worked as before, and the mod tools issue was sorted, that would be the majority of issues sorted.

    Regarding paying a sub, I'd have no problem doing this either, so long as its not a silly price. I think if they did something similar to Reddit and basically said we need X amount to keep the lights on and did a sub drive every quarter a la Wikipedia, they would get some traction.

    Anyone know what it was for the old site?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    Yeah, totally agree that feedback, good and bad is what this forum is for.

    But calling the guy a bollocks, calling for people to lose their jobs, demanding access to accounts, calling Niamh names, calling them incompetent, saying they have killed Boards etc, etc. is not what the forum is for.

    Not implying you've done these things btw, I don't pay much attention to user's names, but I assume you've read the same as I have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    I paid for a year's subscription once, was E50 iirc. I had gotten a brilliant bargain in one of the forums and felt like paying things back as a balance of sorts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭mossie


    Absolutely people are entitled to express their views on the change over / state of the site but are not entitled to resort to personal attacks on Niamh, Odhran or anybody else.

    Someone said that maybe they should just have run with the look that Vanilla is meant for - I think that would have been the end of the site as Vanilla is pretty poor on any forum I've seen. The big drop in traffic on the site reflected the users unhappiness with / difficulty navigating the new site and I don't think a lot of those would have come back if they had simply left it as it was.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    One of people's biggest gripes was with how it looked, so I can see why they chose to 'clone' the look of the site. But I'd agree with you, couldn't give a damn about how it looks, just how it functions. Unfortunately, as is the way of people, they will complain over absolutely anything. A while ago I saw a post that complained about auto bookmarking, followed two posts later complaining about NOT auto bookmarking. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,139 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    On that specific example. On the old site you could turn off auto bookmarking, on here you can't. And yes it's a major annoyance and is affecting my post count



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    But you see that my point is that for most changes, there are those for, and against? Putting the people running the site in a difficult position. While trying to manage a really bad transition, loss of a team member/friend, loss of revenue, lots of hours etc. All to try and keep the site going.... While users tell them they're sh1t and should be sacked. I'm sure you can see what I'm saying?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,526 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    The autobooking should be optional, it doesn't have to be either/or.

    People want and like different features and Feedback is where they are supposed to post about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    Absolutely, loads of quality feedback knocking around, suggestions, even some guy doing a suite of improvements for free for users.

    Super easy to communicate politely like you and I are doing without calling for people to be sacked, name calling, demands for financial info and being an absolute d1ck.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Silly Gilly



    Interesting, not to mention incredibly condescending, that you presume to know the financial status of the user base.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    It appears from later responses that our CEO has invested in Boards himself. I had suspected that he had taken a share in this place as some form of remuneration or compensation package, so to have that tentatively confirmed is one thing.

    If the hand is going to reach out and ask the userbase for some form of revenue or other, we then have a right to know who benefits. It's about transparency.

    You might be happy to live the life of a mushroom, figuratively speaking, but others aren't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,616 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    I want to know how Beasty has so much money and is still able to spend so much time here ? 😋

    There are still some brilliant posters here and the other place has not gained any new subscribers. People waste so much time on the internet, I absolutely love it.

    With the Follow thread option now on the desktop, and on the mobile very soon, I hope. We can now start again.

    There are lots of people here who get a real kick out of helping people. Myself included. Sharing the passion.

    My passions are food and business.

    No. 1 Rule: If you don’t ask, you don’t get.

    The other No. 1 Rule: Do it, review it, change it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,590 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well you get that everywhere on the web. Any abuse should just be a ban from that forum.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Although the thread was started by Odhran which could have seen a bad reaction, his update was so good that most of the criticism seems genuine and constructive.

    The only clunky moments here came from mods, one who doesn't follow the rules about personal comments and trolling, and another who had a bizarre urge to hint at his relative wealth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    Definitely one of the most bizarre posts I have read on boards!!!

    Also a bit pathetic and sad tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭droidman123


    Have no fear,he will be back to say it was a tongue in cheek comment or something like that



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You just know this thread would have been closed down by Mods...except they can't really close a thread opened by the owner when he's getting a decent response!

    Odhran would do well to note that the 2 bad efforts here have come from Mods, look at the other feedback threads they shut down, and think maybe there is no smoke without fire and what can be done to address the biggest problem on this forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,303 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I feel the need to point out that in this thread and forum I am an ordinary user/member. Like everyone else here I an entitled to an opinion and I am entitled to post that opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭shanec1928


     "Comment: As the issues are being worked through, as Odhran has done a welcome u turn on PR and decided to "come clean" (and immediately prompted a warmer reaction) what you say about mods is spot on. It's the single biggest issue here.

    • I appreciate there has been a long delay between this update and my last but there is no change in PR. I hope that you can see our transparency since the start both in terms of what we were doing, the issues we encountered and our ongoing plan to keep working through them."

    im not sure if you are joking here or not but up until the last few posts by you there has been very little transparency. Also still waiting on that update that you said you provide on the data been moved out of europe without users consent and then the big reluctance to be forthcoming with that info, remember that one that boards tried to brush under the rug.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    🤣

    No Muffler, you're totally wrong. "I can say what I like if it's my opinion" is not and was never a defence here, or indeed on the forum you mod and where the charter specifically states...

    Don't attack the poster, attack the post

    You should know this stuff, because you drew up the charter for that forum...

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055131273/charter#latest

    And at this stage the other mods must have their heads in their hands thinking "dear God, please make him stop digging".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,303 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    So Im wrong, I'm not entitled to an opinion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I don't think that everything is due to Vanilla but possibly how it is configured. For example, Digital Spy are using Vanilla and their implementation of it allows selective quoting in an almost identical way to vBulletin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    Not an opinion that breaks the forum charters. Or an opinion where you are acting like a "dick". No freedom of speech on boards.

    So yes, you are wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,303 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Thats fantastic. The 2 most vocal people here in this thread now have themselves convinced that once you are a mod you are not allowed an opinion.

    Goes to show what mods have to deal with....oh wait, Im after expressing an opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    So to be clear - are you saying you can express any opinion you wish on Boards? Even if this breaks forum rules or is a personal insult or is an opinion on one of (the many) legal cases the site has been involved with over the years?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    🤣

    This is hilarious. Muffler is providing the perfect example of how awful modding is, a mod who actually doesn't believe or understand that "it's my opinion" is not a defence.

    If expressing an opinion breaks a charter or the terms of use eg. it's racist or homophobic or abusive or trolling or contains an opinion about an ongoing court case or..the list goes on and on...then you may be entitled to have it, but not to post it here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,303 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    in case you missed the obvious I'm talking about posting an opinion here in this very thread about the topic at hand and other posts.

    I'm at a complete loss as to why me being a mod of another forum has got anything to do with the price of tea in China.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    But you are NOT entitled to post any opinion in this thread!!! Not sure why you don't get that tbh.

    What if I posted my opinion that "Muffler is full of shh1t, and is an idiot" in this thread. Would it be ok?

    /Edit/ just to clarify that is not my opinion ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,303 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I would like to think that any comments/opinions/posts made are acceptable but at the end of the day that is not up to you or me to decide.

    I have yet to see you or anyone else here challenging another poster on the content of their post/expressed opinion. For some unknown reason you wish to single out people who donate their time freely to this site. Personally I have no modding responsibilities in this thread yet you only take exception to anything I or any other mod posts. As I said earlier I dont understand what beef you and others have with people who are mods, Cmods or Admins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    Actually, it is up to you to decide what 'opinion' is acceptable ... maybe not on this thread, but on the threads that you mod.

    I'm really surprised that a mod who has been around for as long as you seemingly has no knowledge about one of the most basic rules of the site. Just to remind you there is "no free speech on boards".

    And also, please stop the little personal digs when you are replying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,590 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Can ye give it a rest.

    Exactly That's what I don't get either.



  • Boards.ie Employee Posts: 149 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Odhran
    Boards.ie Employee


    We needed the data. Search on site is a problem but our biggest traffic driver is Google search by far. No data/content … no traffic. Numbers are growing - traffic, as revenue etc. New user count is very promising also.

    We will be opening up a staging environment in the new year which will be more ‘out of the box’. We had to get off the old platform first and after some failed trial runs before we thought familiarity first.

    We won’t do anything on that yet but that will be a managed process with input from Vanilla.



  • Boards.ie Employee Posts: 149 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Odhran
    Boards.ie Employee


    PROC is a very different proposition.

    I’m not more focused on anything other than keeping Boards alive. There are no resources being focused on other projects.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    Well, I think we can all agree on one thing, that we want you to succeed!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Spot on. The fact that after what, 4 months, we are still waiting for something as simple as a 'delete post' function to be implemented is astonishing.

    And the Boards solution: PM a mod to get it deleted. More work for the mods, more effort for the poster.

    How in the world can not be possible to get a Delete post option added to one of the lists being sent through to Vanilla? Surely something so basic cannot be something that would take long for Boards to request or for Vanilla to implement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,185 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    As i discovered to myself recently, you can delete whole content of the message and replace with new content, including img.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I remember when you were but a pleb like the rest of us. No idea how you became a mod though.

    Good to know you now know your limitations as an underpaid, under valued member of boards 🤣.



  • Posts: 0 Ahmad Icy Glob


    That’s true.. but I have had occasional circumstances where I’d rather simply quickly delete a post rather than fill it with some waffle… not with Andi g the fact that I am exceedingly good at waffle! But other posters just want it cut & dried and not wanting to put in any stuff for the sake of replacing what they quickly feel to be an regretted post.



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