Boards.ie update - 25th November 2021

Galwayguy35 · 28-11-2021 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118234399#Comment_118234399

Ok that twice you said you are leaving, are you expecting everyone to beg you to stay or something.

Its a free site where strangers come on to shoot the breeze for a bit most days and the site doesn't owe you me or anyone else anything.

TheChrisD · 28-11-2021 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118234989#Comment_118234989

Considering there was that period in the early weeks after the move to Vanilla, where users couldn't react on moderator posts with the "abuse" or "spam" flags... I highly doubt that any sanctions will ever be issued upon moderators.

Esel · 28-11-2021 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118235735#Comment_118235735

The new Report as Abuse function was being heavily abused at the time - a few lusers were reporting loads of innocuous posts just to overload the system. It was nothing to do with reporting moderator actions per se.

Láidir agus Dílis · 28-11-2021 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232065#Comment_118232065

<snip> - need to be on the site 3 months before contributing to Feedback thread

If you have an issue with moderation take it to PM

Deedsie · 29-11-2021 3:33am

How this entire process was communicated to users was stink. If the goal was to save the site, users should have been consulted. I am not saying all information should have been put out there but a general this is the situation and this is why we we have to do this.

By not informing people we now have a site that is a shadow of what it once was. Some categories are basically just archives now.

The communication between Boards and Vanilla also sounds like it was poor from the outset. Would you not have just assumed people would be off at the weekend like in the majority of office jobs.

I am not trying to stick the boot in further. Whats done is done but you need to learn from this, communicate better with whats left of the users of the site.

Niamh has been excellent throughout this time.

[Deleted User] · 29-11-2021 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237151#Comment_118237151

It's amusing that 3 posters pointed to a Mod launching a personal attack.

And the reaction of a Mod is to gloss over that and snip one of the criticisms! As I said earlier...

You get the impression that a handful of Mods control the site and site policy (sometimes breaching the site's own terms of use) and any question will see them become defensive and ultimately shut down the challenge. It's pointless.

It's such a neat example of the futility of questioning or challenging. I don't think anything will change unless Odhran steps in and asks what on earth is going on.

Beasty · 29-11-2021 12:55pm

Posters need to be on the site 3 months to post in Feedback

We have given some leeway in the early months of the new platform. However when posters choose to abuse that leeway they can expect to be instructed not to post here.

[Deleted User] · 29-11-2021 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239127#Comment_118239127

I guess rules are rules.

Now what about the post he and others complained about? To facilitate you I've reported it, in case you need something to "trigger" a review.

Hands up, it's not the most egregious attack, but as you're here and presumably happy to demonstrate there is no circling the wagons...

_Kaiser_ · 29-11-2021 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239127#Comment_118239127

I've pointed this out before but it's this attitude to moderation that is a big part of the problem here.

This isn't a HR escalation/performance management process and I for one wish you'd remember that. It's a (dying?) forum that has a lot of issues - both new and legacy - about how it's run. Pushing away newer posters (which is exactly what this site needs!) because they don't have some arbitrary number of posts/time served regardless of the point being made is frankly ridiculous.

It goes to the points being raised above too.. who decides this stuff?

DoctorEdgeWild · 29-11-2021 4:26pm

How can people have so many problems with the mods? I've been here almost 20 years, decent post count, casual poster, never ran into a mod at all, that I know of. No bans/warning or anything that I can remember. There's loads of times I see something that makes me want to call someone an absolute d1ckhead but I don't because I know it's bad for the forum, so I either engage with them or ignore them.

It sucks that boards userbase is shrinking but that's mostly down to forums in general being killed off by social media. It's been a steady trend, I'd say only 10% of the forums I used to use in early 2000s still exist at all.

Even if you don't like the rules, just abide by them and 95% of the time, you'll pass along happily discussing. (The 5% is of course when mods make mistakes).

[Deleted User] · 29-11-2021 5:11pm

If you see the same people being reported every day, notifications that this user or that user has transgressed, or that this or that topic is a transgression, eventually you're going to start to believe it even if you don't read it that way yourself. Solomon Asch documented in the 50's how people like to conform. Asch found that people were willing to ignore reality and give an incorrect answer in order to conform to the rest of the group.

Boards reporting system has remained the same(to act on large amounts of reports) while the culture of people reporting things that offends them has increased dramatically(things that might not actually be a 'transgression'). These topics that transgress have become very political recently also. You can talk about trump to your heart's content(e.g. that he is sexually attracted to his daughter) but there are a myriad of topics you must avoid when it comes to Biden(That is son left a laptop somewhere).

Reguarly there are mod warnings to be seen along the lines of 'we've got alot of reports so we're going to shut this down' etc..

The Silver Branch · 29-11-2021 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240520#Comment_118240520

You sound like you dip in and out. Also sound very dispassionate, turn the other cheek, of course you're not going to fall foul of mods or debate contentious issues with real honesty.

DoctorEdgeWild · 29-11-2021 6:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240999#Comment_118240999

True, I do just dip in and out and not a daily poster or user of the site, but maybe that's a good way to see a bigger picture? EG I don't know any mods or their personalities, politics, beliefs etc, might give me a broader view? I don't know, just suggesting.

I don't know if people get mod actioned for honesty though? I've seen a few times in that dispute forum something being overturned for a misunderstanding or mistake, but in general it seems to me that people step over the line, break the rules, get warned. Looks like a pretty decent system, at least from a casual poster POV.

EmmetSpiceland · 29-11-2021 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241022#Comment_118241022

I’d be a fairly “active” poster and, I have to say, I find the mod criticism on here disgraceful.

The system is quite simple, follow the rules and you don’t get any mod “attention”, step out of line and you do.

And before anyone starts at me saying I’ve never had any “run ins” with mods, I’ve had a few. Obviously, I didn’t agree with some and, usually, with some discussion, and explanation, the mod outlines their reasons or they see your point.

If, at the end of that exchange, you’re still not happy you can “appeal” their decision to an admin. The idea that mods are all power tripping egotist is baloney. If you do something wrong, you get warned. It’s that simple. If you continue to do it then you’ll get further “sanctions”.

To be honest, I think the appeals process is overly generous but mods and admins clearly want to give each user the chance to get a “fair shake”.

[Deleted User] · 29-11-2021 8:45pm

The system is quite simple, follow the rules and you don’t get any mod “attention”, step out of line and you do.

My experience is different, that when a Mod has it in for you a Mod has it in for you. You'll get carded on very specious grounds, and appeals are rejected on even more specious grounds.

For the record I don't think it's power tripping egotism. It's just bad modding, an inertia or resistance to change or review, and a bias in favour of decisions by other mods. I'd concede the last issue is quite natural in organisations.

spaceHopper · 30-11-2021 1:54am

I think it's very telling that Odhran posts an update then drops out of the conversation again.

Mr. CooL ICE · 30-11-2021 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118242975#Comment_118242975

When Odhran posts a long awaited update and less than one page in, the thread turns into yet another bitch fest about power tripping mods, then you'd wonder why he'd bother.

spaceHopper · 30-11-2021 5:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244865#Comment_118244865

Except he said "I am happy to answer any questions you may have and I will collate them together and reply over the next few days." but hasn't checked in since.

Personally I think boards was a great resource but the way the migration was done could well be the death of it. Asking to have my account closed is an option it's not much use anymore.

DoctorEdgeWild · 30-11-2021 5:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118246225#Comment_118246225

Why not just keep using the forum in the way you did before? If you aren't getting enough discussion/responses then fair enough, stop trying. Asking to close your account, or threatening to do so constantly like people were doing almost daily in the early days, seems a bit attention-seeky? It's a shame if you don't enjoy it anymore, but the only people who can make discussion happen, is us, the users.

[Deleted User] · 01-12-2021 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244865#Comment_118244865

I presume this is an asset with a value so he must have some interest in it. The value of the asset is the numbers engaging. And if some are leaving because of how it's run/managed, that may be of interest to him. Obviously, as I don't know if the asset is worth 2k, 22k or 222k, I cannot say whether the interest is passing or he's reading every post!

Boards.ie: Odhran · 01-12-2021 9:49pm

Hi again

I have pulled out questions / comments below - if I missed anything let me know.

Q: I have one question - where have you been?

Still very much here. There has been a lot going on in the background that I can't go into but dealing with Vanilla etc is where I have had to focus my attention. I was pretty active and did indeed step in when needed - Niamh is an excellent community manager and has my backing 100%. We are both fully in the loop of all issues and in the event of me needing to get involved with a specific issue Niamh links me in straight away. I said a few times I would post when I had something to say - unfortunately that took longer than I hoped.

Q: Charges per pull request really doesn't seem like a host that is worth it at all. Surely that should be bundled in with the base fees...

They don't want us firing in PR's for every small change so in part it is to discourage that. Also however we don't want to be doing it either - the longer we keep making a bespoke platform the more we will have to maintain it. Ultimately we want to move to a more generic version but that will be a longer journey.

Comment: Search isn't broken. Vanilla has a great search if it's implemented correctly.

Thanks for the feedback here (and on other issues) @adsbygoogle - unfortunately there are inconsistent results. However there are some fixes being rolled out for that this week I believe.

Q: On functionality, what about the option to mark forums read? Is this on the way? That should be basic functionality on any site. I know it can be done at the moment but not from within the forum.

We have this in the hopper. Once we get the current set of updates out we will give some timelines on that.

Comment: I'd be very surprised if the money saved by not maintaining the old site is enough to bridge the gap between the massive loss in user base.

- I will update separately on traffic but it's clear that we had a massive drop in activity but growth coming back month on month. We switched to Google Analytics 4 which has had an impact however we are starting to see growth here also. Irrespective of the impact the change had we need something else to boost revenue and are working on some projects along those lines.

Comment: As the issues are being worked through, as Odhran has done a welcome u turn on PR and decided to "come clean" (and immediately prompted a warmer reaction) what you say about mods is spot on. It's the single biggest issue here.

I appreciate there has been a long delay between this update and my last but there is no change in PR. I hope that you can see our transparency since the start both in terms of what we were doing, the issues we encountered and our ongoing plan to keep working through them.

There are a good few points raised here also about modding which are probably not for this post. From a platform perspective - Mods have not had anything near the tools that they had before and as a result have had a much tougher job. We have made some steps towards fixing that with the ability to Mod on a per forum basis.

I will touch base again shortly - we hope to be able too get a beta project shortly to kickstart our first non ad revenue initiative.

Thank you all for your feedback and ongoing support of Boards.

Many thanks

Odhran

[Deleted User] · 01-12-2021 10:13pm

Appreciate the detailed response. Good to get some of that additional info.

I can't speak for others, but I think its fair to say mod tools has to be one of the highest priorities. The reasons why are well known at this stage

Flinty997 · 01-12-2021 10:45pm

I wonder if the stock theme would have been more useable out of the box than the custom boards theme that was implemented. Especially on mobile which I assume the majority of users generally are these days.

I also wonder if the overhead of migrating all the old data outweighs the cost of migrating it and the value to current users. Since you can't reliably search it, or add to old threads.

What's done is done. But those are still valid questions. Are customization and maintaining legacy data viable going forward with reduced resources. As others have already said the core of the site is the moderation.

Pelvis Parsley · 02-12-2021 1:53am

How did PROC manage it seamlessly, yet ye couldn't?

This platform is still in bits yet you seem more focused on some unspecified beta to kickstart revenue. I get that this needs to be done but why not get the basics right first?

Pelvis Parsley · 02-12-2021 1:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254728#Comment_118254728

Also, who own Boards Software Ltd.? If an investment was made to keep the lights on, it would be nice to know who it was.

[Deleted User] · 02-12-2021 3:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254729#Comment_118254729

Why you think you need to know that is beyond me, what purpose would it serve?

But, if its that important you can get a load of info right here once you pay for it

_Kaiser_ · 02-12-2021 1:40pm

Posted by Odhran:

They don't want us firing in PR's for every small change so in part it is to discourage that. Also however we don't want to be doing it either - the longer we keep making a bespoke platform the more we will have to maintain it. Ultimately we want to move to a more generic version but that will be a longer journey.

What does this mean? Isn't that where you started with Vanilla and have now spent the last 4/5 months trying to beat it into a usable shape? Is there ANOTHER migration on the horizon? Within Vanilla or to another platform again?

That can't be a serious consideration after the last 5 months?

Beasty · 02-12-2021 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250640#Comment_118250640

I am probably one of the few around here that could afford investing in businesses

The dot-com boom is over. It's been over for very many years. This "business" has never made any money. Odhran has most certainly invested significant sums (certainly significant for many around here) of his own money just to keep the place running. He also presumably hopes he will eventually get some return on that investment. I wish him every luck on that. I am happy to pay annual subs and indeed take adverts if it helps keep the company afloat

One thing I would say is you really could not pay me enough to take this "business" on. There is no way anyone with an ounce of financial sense would pay anything for the site. Without Odrhan many of us may have been on Facebook pleading for someone to at a minimum bring back historic content.

And I post this with zero knowledge of the current financing arrangements. Accounts for the current company are not yet available and we see nothing of any of that at Admin level.

HeidiHeidi · 02-12-2021 2:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118256208#Comment_118256208

After seeing that post yesterday, I got to wondering about this obsession with trying to replicate the old boards within a framework that clearly just doesn't fit.

Is it not an option to just run with whatever "look" Vanilla is meant for, and can run without adaptations and endless bodging? Which seems to mean fixing one thing while breaking two others.

We're all big boys and girls here, we can adapt to a new-look site (even me, and I'm absolutely allergic to change!) - would take a bit of getting used to, but it would have to be better than the current set up which would drive you to drink sometimes.

DoctorEdgeWild · 02-12-2021 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118256499#Comment_118256499

But not every user is a big boy or girl, even minor changes at times have caused ridiculous over the top reactions including old playground favourites like calling for people to lose their jobs and calling them names, constant 'threats' to leave, hyperbolic nonsense and good old fashioned whinging. Look back at the the threads when the new boards went live, absolutely unreal level of over reaction.

By the way, as @Beasty said above, I'd also be willing to pay a sub, but would not support anything that restricts non sub payers from full functionality of the site.

Boards.ie update - 25th November 2021

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