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Fuel Price Protest Dublin 24th November

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,581 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I'd give them the benefit of the doubt until we see what they actually do.

    I'd also advise avoiding Dublin tomorrow just in case they do go rogue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite



    The "tiny markups on fuel" line is just a great myth that the forecourt operators in Ireland have managed to seemingly get most of the country to believe. They make plenty of profit on both fuel and non-fuel sales - it's just that food and drink (and particularly the food and drink products that they sell) are incredibly high margin so it makes fuel look small in comparison. Food & Drink is normally c.60% margin, with some much higher margin products thrown in as well - self-serve coffee being one of the most profitable. Typically for the type of full food service stations (with hot food options) that we have in Ireland you're looking at 25-45% of gross profit from fuel sales, and 55-75% from non-fuel sales.

    Fuel margins for retail operators in Ireland range from 6-15cent per litre, depending on the operator and location. Circle K and Applegreen owned and operated sites typically will be at the higher end (normally around 10-12cpl, with some outlier sites doing higher) - with the unmanned sites (business model) and smaller independents (who are paying higher supply costs) often at the lower end.

    On a €50 spend - that's approx. 29litres (certainly not a "fill" at current prices) - so anything from €1.74 to €4.35 of margin being earned. For a Circle K or Applegreen they'd expect to be making between €2.50 - €3.50 on a €50 spend.

    On a €2.50 cup of coffee, the gross margin is typically c.95%+ for the machine coffee that most offer - so from €2.25-2.40 of margin earned.

    If your typical customer spends €50 on fuel, and another €5 on food/drink - then it's likely that the service station is making c. €2.50 on the fuel and anywhere from €3.00-4.50 profit on the food/drink. Both are profitable for the service station



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    SPSV are for taxis and minibuses as it's Small Public Service Vehicles. Buses aren't SPSVs



  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Ah FFS not this craic again.

    I had sympathy for home owners in Donegal until they pulled this stunt. I started to get really annoyed when they were giving out about us Dubliners when FFS that's where most of tax comes from in country and we will be paying for their one off houses often 4 or 5 bed homes while people can't find a one bed flat in Dublin to rent at a decent rate.

    Nope totally changed my opinion on helping them out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    That's a nothing solution. There are electric or hybrid alternatives for freight transport. This is a government which recently drastically reduced EV grants for private passenger cars. I honestly think it has been it has long been government policy to make life more stressful, so people cannot see ultimately what is wrong. Protest is their only option. The disapproval of sneeds who lamely accept everything the government does, is not something to be worried about. A good many can get their bicycle, help their health and the planet (or more directly air quality). Bullies (this government) only respond when people fight back, as bullies are almost always cowards. Good luck to them, prayers for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,544 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Pricks blasting their horns on a motorway past a residential area before many people wake up this morning.

    Really going to get support from the general public doing that!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,175 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    If your typical customer spends €50 on fuel, and another €5 on food/drink - then it's likely that the service station is making c. €2.50 on the fuel and anywhere from €3.00-4.50 profit on the food/drink. Both are profitable for the service station

    that ignores the cost of running the service station though? you can't say 'they're selling the petrol for more than they paid for it, therefore it's a profitable business'?

    one of your examples suggested that their profit margin on the petrol can be as low as 3.5%. a 3.5% margin on which to run a business is tiny, surely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Doesn't every company use fuel though? The obvious answer is to raise prices. If it's a universal issue, won't everyone have to do it?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    That's the worst thing you have to worry about?


    Try worry about your job, livelihood etc going bust.


    I'm alright Jack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Oh no, what a discomfort you have!

    Well done to everyone out there protesting today!

    By the way, the only people not supporting these people are those living in the cities where fuel prices doesn't affect them!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Why would they go bust? As I said above, if everyone has to pay fuel duty, no one will gain a competitive advantage, the price floor for everyone has risen. So the answer here, and it seems obvious, is just to raise prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Well done indeed.

    I look forward to the reduced prices at the pumps in the next couple of weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭MrMusician18




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,544 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I don't live in a city. I'm not supporting the protest because I know its utterly futile. Duty isn't going to be reduced no matter how often you make a prick of yourself and piss other people off.

    Diesel isn't even particularly expensive by European standards here in the first place; not compared to all the other expenses involved in their business.

    Irish Rail winding down their freight operation to near nothing, ably assisted by the ILDA strike, is starting to look like an exceptionally stupid idea now.

    Everyone involved in this today is wasting their fuel, wasting their driving hours, pissing people off and will achieve nothing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7 al_nix


    I was wrong. I expected to find nothing when I looked for government support I got excited. Given the search term I used I am surprised this came up and the page it was on just gave me a form to apply no info. So ok maybe there isn't a huge amount of support just now. As I originally said other countries do support this, the fuel savings over time could help fund it and things like hybrids can reduce the cost without being €70000 more. And asking for duty to be cut won't help when ICE engines are banned. I get they handled and timed this about as well as I would expect them to play against the Dublin GAA squad but saying you can only keep burning Diesel there is no way to even reduce it just plays into their hands. Asking them to do their bit to make the transition possible in time to meet their goals and be fair to all stakeholders would be a better strategy. Maybe you could ask why a taxi firm gets help when they transport fewer people and emit less carbon but firms like yours who are subcontracted to by semi-state bodies are given contracts that push increased costs of consumables on to you and get no assistance to transition to low or no carbon technology. I am not saying they would have an answer but as far as I can see no one is asking the question just now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Ah now, don't come in here with your false equivalence. "It's not as expensive as other countries"....Pointless comment unless you have the tax rates, insurance rates etc for the total cost of ownership too.

    99% of protests are futile, do you want people to just lie down and take it so? Don't even bother? I wonder would you tell all those who protested against anti abortion laws all those years whether their protests were futile.

    The cost of living in Ireland is increasing rapidly and the government do not give a **** because they know we won't do fcuk all about it! The irish bend over and take what we're given. That's what we do! And then we still have lads still above themselves talking about the water protests in 2014...7 years ago lads, pull the finger out and do it again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    The vast amount of people in cities don't think about how their shops get stocked, they just think they magically appear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,159 ✭✭✭benny79


    Irish rail is a terrible service and vastly overpriced! I would love to get the train to work, station is 20 mins away + less stress but its cheaper to drive and I need a car as I live in the country. Its €1.70 a litre, government get €1.20 of that! Thats why the country is the way it is because nobody will take a stand against the Government and the sh*t show that they are! Remember they gave themselves a pay rise in a pandemic! Our health & transport system is a joke. I suppose you were one of those people who sat on their hole about the water charges! well the people protested against that and won! So not all protest are futile.


    It took me over 2 hours to get to work because of the protest. I still support them 100% fair play. Petty more Irish people dont take a stand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    They don't but that hardly makes them unique? I'm not from a city but I can't ever remember me or anyone I know ever wringing their hands over how the nearest Londis would get stocked either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    No but they'd understand and support protestors against the rising cost of fuel encouraged by the government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I dont live in a city and I abhor these moronic "protests"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,323 ✭✭✭highdef


    I think what the poster is saying is that if he/she had employment/livelihood issues, they're not going to drive around the streets of Dublin waking people up by blaring the horn on their vehicle for all to hear. If I was in any sort of unfortunate situation (doesn't even have to be livelihood related, literally anything that is making my life unpleasant), the last thing I would be thinking of doing would be to go and disturb hundreds or thousands of other people from their sleep/daily commute/making their way around with their lives in general, in order for me to potentially gain something for my own self.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    How do you know if they have greater understanding or support? You are only surmising on both those points.

    The recent rises in fuel cost have largely been because of an increase in the wholesale price of fuel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,544 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They aren't out protesting the things that are dearer here, only the thing that isn't. Which is why the protest is completely pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    How many of these stupid go slow things do we have now? every clown in the country thinks that a go slow around Dublin is going to achieve something. We had the farmer recently, then the donegal houses and now the trucks. Absolute waste of time.

    The people who they are trying to hit just work from home and all they are doing is screwing over the people that have to try and get into work today. Shower of gobs**t going around blowing horns etc.

    Look at that chart, we are more or less the average.

    For people driving diesel cars, I own one myself, it is hardly a f**king surprise, the government has been talking about raising the price of diesel for 10+ years now. Why is it suddenly a surprise?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    When you have protesters behaving in such a way I see it as an acknowledgement that the argument cannot be won by conventional means i.e. making your case and convincing others in the merits of your argument. Annoying protests on the other hand aim to get their goals met by getting others put out enough by it to force policy makers to "make them go away".

    The latter type is rarely successful. I can't think of any movement that had their aims achieved by bringing Dublin to a halt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    and? that was always the way

    We have had that for years, plenty of people on TV saying the garage makes no money out of it etc etc.

    People are all up in arms because fuel price was at a huge low last year, now as the World is kind of open again suddenly everyone realised that fuel prices would increase.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    That hasn't changed significantly in years. The rises in the last six months have almost solely been down to the increase in the wholesale price.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands




  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    But inline with the rest of Europe.

    I hate to tell you but the price of oil has been increasing for years and will continue. Covid was the blip.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Instead of wasting time and money blocking up dublin, could they have not used the time to educate themselves on how to hedge against fuel price increases?



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    It's no wonder Irish people are peed on from a height continuously from our supposed better's. When anyone protests and stands up for their beliefs or rights all you get is begrudging im alright jack moaners.

    I'd honestly like to see the hauliers down tools in the run up to Xmas and let's see then how the country copes. The Green's will deliver everyone's stuff on magic bicycles powered by lettuce leaves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭E36Ross


    Look at the bigger picture, We already have a driver shortage as no young people want to get into the industry, add the spiraling fuel costs and its only a matter of time before costs of everything increase massively and longstanding businesses pull out because its simply not worth it.


    Then the general public will support them because it hits there pocket.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Does a private company have a right to cheaper fuel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,066 ✭✭✭✭neris


    They need to block the ports and entrances to large distribution hubs and industrial estates and then people might understand how theyre being screwed over by fuel prices with no alternatives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Do you not think people already understand their issues?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Yeah, imagine standing up for themselves. They should just keep their heads down like most chicken-hearted Irish people. Myself included.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Of course not but once people don't complain when prices start to skyrocket across the board then it's all good. A lot of these hauliers will have contracts usually yearly to deliver goods with set prices and some are operating at a loss now. When those contracts are renewed with inevitable price rises everyone is going to feel it be your pint of milk or those Nike runners you've been longing for.

    It's an industry I spent many years working in and unless the haulage sector protected we will see widespread closures in companies with multi year contracts who can't adjust the terms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    This is not "standing up for yourself". This is instead akin to being beaten up and then coming home and kicking your dog. You lash out but it's idiotic and unrelated to the actual issue and will not solve anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Ah here what the hell happened to the Irish people? As a nation we've gained a lot though protests and marches.

    The cost of fuel in the country is an absolute joke at the moment, and it was going up for months before the Govt added more to the tax on it because they know full well that people have no choice but to pay it. Garages make shag all from the cost of fuel, but the Govt is making a nice profit off something they have nothing to really do with.

    TD's won't care because they expense it all back to the tax payer, so without going out and making your voice heard nothing will possibly change on this.

    Even in my **** little 2007 Golf it costs me €80 (give or take a euro) to fill the tank, which is insane money for a small tank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    The result will be the same, but they wouldn't have inconvenienced half the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    If they are signing long term contracts then they need to hedge against fuel price increases. I think the public are aware that prices on logistics are going to go up, it's been flagged for a while now.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They are being screwed over by not being paid enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭eggy81


    Wow. Your sympathy really went a long way to solving their plight. Very mean spirited to just take it away like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭eggy81




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,544 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Vastly more likely to have an impact.

    They've picked the stupidest option available to them by far.

    But fuel duty isn't going to be cut.

    Pressure to be able to increase prices on now unsustainable contracts might get somewhere. Pressure to get supports for EV trucks, support for rail freight as an alternative etc has a decent chance of getting somewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Do you understand what a strike is?

    Are they striking against the companies that employ them? because the government doesn't pay them. Who are you asking to strike? truck drivers or all diesel drivers?



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