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Fuel Price Protest Dublin 24th November



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,489 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Its a fair point but subsidizing the very thing we are, in theory, trying to discourage is not a great look. I would, perhaps, be ok with them subsidizing the use of more biofuels etc.

    most obvious question is that are those who don't think the truckers shouldn't get a rebate, also happy to pay more for their shopping in the local spar?

    Ultimately yes. Happy perhaps the wrong word, but I would accept it. The problem is that that is not what is happening - instead farmers, truckers etc are being driven to the wall.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,198 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly

    It's a misguided push. All the chemicals and gases produced in mining and making batteries.

  • Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭ Billcarson

    Good luck to them. Pity they wouldn't drive through the gates of the dail while they are at it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,513 ✭✭✭ elperello

    They are entitled to protest but not to illegally block roads.

    They definitely have a case because whether we acknowledge it or not "the white line is the lifeline of the nation".

    Having said that I won't be trying to make it to Dublin Port on the morning of the protest so won't be discommoded if I was I wouldn't be too pleased.

  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭ SupplyandDemandZone

    It's not just truckers effected I know of a mini bus company that transports kids with disabilities to and from schools around the west of the country gone to the wall because of diesel prices. That's real world repercussions for families right now.

    Margins are tiny in many of those industries and the figures just don't add up anymore.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,531 ✭✭✭✭ Wishbone Ash

    If a truck is taxed, insured, CVRTed etc. the driver is entitled to drive it on a public road. If many of them choose to do it at the same time it will obviously result is severe congestion but technically they are not blocking the roads.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,513 ✭✭✭ elperello

    Agreed, as I said if they don't break the law they are good to go.

    Besides, I know a few shortcuts around Dublin 🙂.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭ Hilly Bill

    Disabled people can claim tax back on their fuel. Something similar like you suggest sounds like the right move although personally I'd like the cost to come down and I avoid those petrol stations who take the proverbials with their price hikes. I wonder if those meeting up at the designated starting points on Wednesday will avoid purchasing anything at those locations as they are ones who seem to be price gouging with their fuel.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,748 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005

    Most bio fuels are made from food stock so not environmentally friendly when we have millions starving. Until bio fuels are made from waste products then they aren't much better than dino fuel.

    There's no alternative to using big diesels engines for moving large items long distances and until there is we need to do something to protect the industry that hauls everything we consume. Will we even have enough electricity to power our whole vehicle fleet and heat all our homes?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭ wassie

    As reported in the Independent 3 days ago

    “The mark-ups on fuel are tiny, so if you were to go into the local garage and buy €50 of fuel and buy a cappuccino for €2.50, the store owner would have made far more on the cappuccino than on the fuel.”

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,073 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92

    Yeh that’s a given anyway seeing as coffee is a legit rip-off

  • Registered Users Posts: 7 al_nix

    There are plenty of options to do better with emissions and fuel consumption.

    Already Scania make a PHEV and Volvo make a hybrid fo r example. There are more coming like the MAN TGX. Then there are the zero emissions options on the way (some in production but waiting lists....) the Tesla and Daimler electric trucks for example.

    Post edited by al_nix on

  • Registered Users Posts: 7 al_nix

    The technology for reducing emissions with AdBlue or hydrogen or reducing the amount of diesel needed with hybrid drives has been mature for decades but the government failed to encourage it effectively. This has led to the second-hand market for trucks as well as a large part of the pipeline of newly built trucks that are conventional. This is a government failure. A lot of similar failures mean some vulnerable regions are already facing more disasters than they normally would due to climate change. Demanding a reduction in Fuel duty is not a solution and makes the government response too easy. They could say "we know it's hard but to fight climate change we can not encourage more carbon-intensive activity...". This suits them as the companies who can operate on razor-thin margins are the big hauliers run by friends of politicians who will then pay drivers low wages or squeeze subcontractors. There are no easy solutions but the hauliers who are trying to find one need to flag those problems and point out the absence of government assistance. Given how long it takes to make a fleet more efficient in the short term prices need to go up rather than the cost of diesel going down this will encourage more efficient transport use by companies (as few trucks as possible but there is so much demand in the market the sector will actually grow) and give the hauliers the funds needed to modernise fleets (Achieve the governments aims with very little help from them). Why block the streets and demand the government stop trying to tackle climate change instead of refusing to haul for Tesco, Musgraves Amazon or anyone else applying effective downward pressure on haulage prices. What this protesd=t does is land the issue with a government who are doing the right thing 50 years too late and the people whose support you will need if(when) in future the government needs encouragement to do the right thing fund scrappage of polluting trucks and/or purchase of less polluting ones as the supply of these units becomes available.

    Post edited by al_nix on

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,489 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    In Europe its about half. The rest are made from waste products. The majority of food crop used is rapeseed oil, for which there is not a massive food demand. Its still significantly better than fossil fuels, though obviously has ethical questions around the use of food crops.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,280 ✭✭✭ Patser

    Does anyone actually know who is organising this, or even how organised it is? The Irish Truckers and Haulage Association against Fuel Prices is literally just a facebook page set up in October, the Irish Road Hauliers Association have said nothing to do with them, I've heard from the Guards that the organisers are not liaising with them as to what's planned.....

    All there seems to be is a facebook idea that truckers should meet up at certain petrol stations and drive towards Kildare St until they can't go any further then stop! No other plan than that - no let's try hand a petition to a minister, no let's have speeches, just drive into Dublin at rush hour and block it up. There seems to be no other organisation than that behind it, or anyone taking credit/responibility for what happens.

    Seems fierce unfair that some randomer on Facebook can decide lets feck up Dublin for everyone for a day - and off we go.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,496 ✭✭✭✭ Spook_ie

    Isn't that more or less how Greta rose to fame/infamy?

  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭ E36Ross

    But they're not viable options..... I have new bus ordered for next year and the cost of an equivalent electric bus is roughly an extra €70,000.

    Majority of private buses are on fixed price contracts. (Private Bus Eireann school contracts are normally 5 years!)

    Price of fuel is crippling small companies.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,280 ✭✭✭ Patser

    She started by going on strike from her school, as a 1 person protest. She was easily identifiable, willing to talk about and defend her position, and didn;t bring Stockholm (? I think?) to a standstill

    Quick google - a 3 week 1 person strike outside their parliament, in which she refused to go to school. Caught local attention, and motivated young people to join her.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7 al_nix

    The less polluting options are so expensive they are out of reach, which is a government failure. Also over 5 years on fuel-intensive runs the savings in fuel even before this increase would pay for it banks need to take that into account when giving loans i.e. small companies need to be allowed to spend an extra €70000 upfront on a bus that will save them €100000 over 5 years if the company is solvent and has a contract with the same collateral, the government could underwrite things like this and in other countries they do. In other cases hybrid options or other more efficient but not fully electric options do exist. For the price to come down they need to sell more so unless a way is found for the buyers to afford them we will never move forward or everything will consolidate to big mega bus and haulage firms who will pay drivers less.

    Edit: there is a scheme here it is called the eSPSV Grant Scheme 2021 they will contribute up to €20000 with that plus fuel savings over 5 years the bank should be able to help you make the rest of the business case. I mean being a business with a plan to achieve net0 by 2030 and having already saved x ton of carbon vs conventional systems... will probably win contracts in the current climate too. For situations where electric cant makes sense use hybrid vehicles like the Alexander Dennis enviro 400 or 200 with the smart pack or the iveco hybrids or more efficient ones like volvo. In other cases use plug-in hybrids so when you can skip the diesel cost you do and when you need it it is there.

    Also, prices need to go up as long as the fuel costs more and alternatives are expensive as I said in another comment this will encourage more efficient transport use by customers (as few busses as possible but there is so much demand in the market the sector will actually grow) and give the operators the funds needed to modernise fleets.

    Post edited by al_nix on

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,513 ✭✭✭ elperello

    I'd give them the benefit of the doubt until we see what they actually do.

    I'd also advise avoiding Dublin tomorrow just in case they do go rogue.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,748 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005

    SPSV are for taxis and minibuses as it's Small Public Service Vehicles. Buses aren't SPSVs

  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭ dickdasr1234

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭ appledrop

    Ah FFS not this craic again.

    I had sympathy for home owners in Donegal until they pulled this stunt. I started to get really annoyed when they were giving out about us Dubliners when FFS that's where most of tax comes from in country and we will be paying for their one off houses often 4 or 5 bed homes while people can't find a one bed flat in Dublin to rent at a decent rate.

    Nope totally changed my opinion on helping them out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭ Thinkingaboutit

    That's a nothing solution. There are electric or hybrid alternatives for freight transport. This is a government which recently drastically reduced EV grants for private passenger cars. I honestly think it has been it has long been government policy to make life more stressful, so people cannot see ultimately what is wrong. Protest is their only option. The disapproval of sneeds who lamely accept everything the government does, is not something to be worried about. A good many can get their bicycle, help their health and the planet (or more directly air quality). Bullies (this government) only respond when people fight back, as bullies are almost always cowards. Good luck to them, prayers for them.

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011

    Pricks blasting their horns on a motorway past a residential area before many people wake up this morning.

    Really going to get support from the general public doing that!

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,210 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder

    If your typical customer spends €50 on fuel, and another €5 on food/drink - then it's likely that the service station is making c. €2.50 on the fuel and anywhere from €3.00-4.50 profit on the food/drink. Both are profitable for the service station

    that ignores the cost of running the service station though? you can't say 'they're selling the petrol for more than they paid for it, therefore it's a profitable business'?

    one of your examples suggested that their profit margin on the petrol can be as low as 3.5%. a 3.5% margin on which to run a business is tiny, surely.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,413 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18

    Doesn't every company use fuel though? The obvious answer is to raise prices. If it's a universal issue, won't everyone have to do it?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭ Jinglejangle69

    That's the worst thing you have to worry about?

    Try worry about your job, livelihood etc going bust.

    I'm alright Jack.