Wheel of Time (Amazon)

Mr.Nice Guy · 22-11-2021 12:40am

I haven't read the books. I thought the first two episodes were pretty dodgy. Someone mentioned it felt a bit cheap and I did get the impression I was watching a BBC Saturday evening show at times, save for the violence which can be strong.

I thought the third episode was an improvement, and it kept me engaged. I think it's a problem that several of the main characters come across as very wooden and one-dimensional. Hopefully that aspect improves.

Loafing Oaf · 22-11-2021 12:52am

Have watched the first three episodes twice, think I have got into the swing of it. Not as convoluted as I had feared. Will have this review at the back of my mind for a while though.

I’m aware that I need to tell you a little about its plot, and though I could probably learn to code more easily, I’ll now make a stab at doing so. OK, here goes. There was a Woman with White Eyes, and she couldn’t see, but now the Dark One is waking, and One must be found who can Stand Against Him and be a Dragon Reborn. Yes, I think that’s the gist of it!

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv/2021/11/amazon-prime-fantasy-series-the-wheel-of-time-is-a-colossal-waste-of-time-and-money

As for the monsters, up close they look like Lemmy out of Motörhead (RIP) after a bad night. Quick, someone! Fetch me a litre of bourbon and 24 Solpadeine.

I suppose you could a similar job on any fantasy show if you were feeling dyspeptic though...

Flinty997 · 22-11-2021 1:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203706#Comment_118203706

I should have said it was obviously a deliberate choice they made. GOT was widely criticized for it's lack of diversity and what there was was very stereotyped. Still as you say it was well recieved regardless.

spookwoman · 22-11-2021 1:40am

It's a wonder no one has complained about the Tuatha'an stereo typing and played by Irish actors keeping their accents :)

The Tuatha'an, (pronounced: too-AH-thah-AHN), are a nomadic people who live in brightly painted wagons and live by a pacifist philosophy known as the Way of the Leaf.[1] Outsiders sometimes call them "Tinkers" or refer to them as the "Traveling People". They also do not stay near areas where population is concentrated, as there is a greater propensity for violence in larger settlements. Their beliefs and actions frequently earn them repudiation by common folk. They are considered habitual thieves and, though they do not actively recruit new members, are often accused of trying to convert children to the Way of the Leaf.

Corruptedmorals · 22-11-2021 2:01am

Brandon Sanderson, the author who completed the series, has been quite active on reddit discussing the show. He mentioned that they originally planned for 10 episodes and a 2-hour premiere. It's such a pity that was changed, there is so much to cram into the season and speed up. The first episode absolutely suffers for it with the frantic pacing but 2 hours might have put people off. Something in between would have been better.

I think the casting is great. I enjoyed the back stories for Mat and Perrin, I agree with the point that they will help to plot out their future actions and motivations for same. Perrin has a lot of internal struggle in the books, they needed a better way to do that quickly. So far the main characters 'feel' like they do in the books even though naturally enough it's different. Pleasantly surprised by the strength of performance in characters like Dana the Inn keeper and Valda the whitecloak, it bodes well.

I fully subscribe to the idea that this is a different turning of the wheel, a different adaptation. But I love it. They would need 20 series of 20 episodes to even attempt to recreate the books and the reviews that criticise it for that are pathetic. Excited for the rest of the season!

Flinty997 · 22-11-2021 2:15am

I don't mind that's it's different. I'm also enjoying it so far. The story should be improved by tighter editing it to the core story.

Mitch Connor · 22-11-2021 10:11am

There are some elements of the book that even Robert Jordan must wish he hadn't written - plot lines in one book are ignored in the next - so I can't be too mad about the tv show adapting the story in places.

The Perrin choice I get - in the books his guilt is due to killing White Cloaks, in self-defence. Given they are evil fookers, and made even more so in the TV show (openly killing Aes Sedai..... and wearing their rings as trophies) I don't think his guilt would be understandable, or at least the TV audience would probably think him a hero for it and have a hard time understanding his position. I even think it makes a future story line more easy to tell - as to why he wants to do things alone.

Also, will be interesting to see if they bring in Elias at any point now - he was with them before the Tinkers in the book, but no sign of him yet. Possibly not a needed character though, at least based on the first 4 books (going back through them now)

VinLieger · 22-11-2021 10:22am

So far im on board however Ive got issues with the complete rewriting of Egwenes motivations for leaving the village.

In the books she goes along to protect the boys and look after them as well as just wanting to see the world beyond the two rivers. The inmplication that she might be the dragon as her only reeason for leaving changes a lot about her as a character and removes a lot of her agency which if were trying to be woke and all about equality by saying she might be the dragon this in fact does the complete opposite.

Gary kk · 22-11-2021 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204129#Comment_118204129

Have you read the books

Edit. Because I am pretty sure your making a mountain out of something that wouldn't be described as a mole hill

Corruptedmorals · 22-11-2021 6:06pm

Robert Jordan was an absolute genius at depicting cultures. Borrowing from all over. There are two in particular I am really looking forward to seeing. The depiction of the Travelling people was fine, not too far from what I expected. There are come criticisms that I find perplexing - that black characters seem to be 'bad' and white or mixed race are 'good'. Which just seems hilarious as they have only just begun to show this world and it is by far the most diverse cast I've ever seen.

Mitch Connor · 22-11-2021 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207089#Comment_118207089

I'd not coped that with the questioner or fain. I'd gone with oh they've diversified there, fair play. I'd not coped they were both bad guys in my thoughts.

spookwoman · 22-11-2021 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206084#Comment_118206084

I have read the books and just taking the p*ss. Jesus!

Ishmael · 22-11-2021 8:58pm

Watched the first three eps Sunday night. Disappointed enough in the first two eps as i have been looking forward to this for a good while. Third ep was better but still not out of the woods. Feels way too rushed. Hoping it gets better as the season goes on but if it continues like eps 1 & 2, i can't see myself sticking with it.

Flinty997 · 22-11-2021 9:41pm

Thought Egwenes characters was one of the stronger ones in the book. Curious why they felt the need to change her storyline at all.

I thought the Warder would be bigger. More like Strider.

Pawwed Rig · 22-11-2021 10:03pm

Got fairly bad reviews on newstalk today if that is anything to go by.

Comments were that it looks cheap and the dialogue is poor. The trollocs were also a source of much mirth as in 'what a load of trollocs'.

Loughc · 22-11-2021 10:13pm

I thought it looked so cheap in places. I thought it had a big budget but didn’t seem so in episode one.

The story has enough to keep me interested especially when I never read the books. But it feels more like a lazy Sunday afternoon watch as opposed to a blockbuster prime time watch.

Corruptedmorals · 22-11-2021 11:07pm

It has an enormous budget, Amazon threw the kitchen sink at it. Episode 1 definitely had a moment or two but I thought it got better. Hopefully not something that becomes an issue. I liked the trollocs and thought they were very faithful and a good mishmash of everything as they are written. Maybe it does seem a bit lazy or something as it's a common enough fantasy thing? I hope people give it the chance to show what it's really about and the huge scope of it. There are so many book scenes that would be so incredible on screen.

pixelburp · 23-11-2021 9:44am

The money has obviously gone into the location shooting and set design - which, to be fair, was spectacular in that opening episode (no idea if that persists yet); easy to forget just how logistically and financially expensive shooting in mountains can be but the end result is rarely less than impressive. They made pains to avoid anything that might be mistaken for the forests outside Vancouver (a beloved location of many genre shows on CW and SyFy). While I found the monster FX to be very effective - it looked like a mixture of CGI and practical animatronics; it came together nicely, gave the attack a good sense of heft and physicality. Again, it's something you just don't get in "standard" network shows of this stripe.

But the side was really let down by the costume department, that's what stuck out to me: it's such a small, but vital part of the world-building; while the villagers were meant to be simple, "of the earth" types there was just something really ... inauthentic about their "shabby" clothes. Like they were designed or manufactured to look rough-edged, rather than being actually something modest farmers might have worn across the seasons. Like those €60 "distressed" t-shirts you get in shops. While there was also no sense of identity either; even somewhere backwater like Two Rivers would have some sense of individuality in their presentation, a sense of culture. Instead, it all came off as I snarked earlier - the opening scene of a video-game.

I did like/laugh at Rosamund Pike's suspenders: she looked high-born and regal with her flowing coat, but the suspenders keeping her trousers up looked a bit silly 😀

Sleepy · 23-11-2021 10:37am

I actually thought some of the costume work was pretty decent - Rand wearing a sheep skin coat for instance seemed very in keeping with his background...

So far I'm enjoying it. I liked Brandon Sanderson's idea that his "head canon" for the series which is that the show is a different turning of the wheel than the novels so there'll be differences in how the story plays out. TBH, I wouldn't be the invested in the series as while I loved Jordan's world building, I found a lot of his writing to be rather poor and some of the books could be a bit of a slog.

FYI, Brandon Sanderson is quite active on Reddit and has posted his thoughts on the first two episodes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/qxt9h5/some_thoughts_from_brandon_episode_one/

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/qy2r52/some_thoughts_from_brandon_episode_two/

Corruptedmorals · 23-11-2021 11:21am

I like the costume work too. Also the use of Aes Sedai colours. Costume department work has been made easy for them once the budget is there, the man had a paragraph written about every dress and outfit in the books.

I can't wait for the next episode or two to elevate this from regular fantasy to the politics, intrigue etc. It's such a tough ask now not to flood this with characters considering the pace they need. Wise decision to condense darkfriends so far and skip towns.

23-11-2021 1:24pm

Has there been a single tug on a braid or lusting after calf muscles yet?

Gary kk · 23-11-2021 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207558#Comment_118207558

What's wrong with you why would you use the Lords name in vain.

Loafing Oaf · 23-11-2021 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210479#Comment_118210479

Close as we get AFAIK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ImKy559F9M

matrim · 23-11-2021 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210479#Comment_118210479

There was the

[spoiler] trolloc dragging nynaeve away by her braid [/spoiler]

Sleepy · 23-11-2021 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210652#Comment_118210652

He never mentioned Shai'tan... 🤣

23-11-2021 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212505#Comment_118212505

Shai'tan is your lord?

Darkfriend!!!!

Daroxtar · 23-11-2021 7:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210479#Comment_118210479

Definitely saw Nynaeve make a very pronounced throw of her braid across her shoulder at one point.

23-11-2021 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212561#Comment_118212561

That's what prompted me to ask, actually. Definitely NOT a tug but probably a nod to it

Corruptedmorals · 23-11-2021 9:41pm

Plenty of skirts to smooth yet.

gmisk · 23-11-2021 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208195#Comment_118208195

I think it is 10 million dollars per episode...game of thrones was 5 million dollars per episode but I know that went up as it went along (final season was 15 million per episode).

But I agree it felt oddly cheap in places.

I have now watched two episodes, I just don't think it is for me, game of thrones grabbed me from start this doesn't at all, I can't see it having the same widespread appeal at all.