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Austria hits panic button.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,024 ✭✭✭✭The Nal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    We're not talking about triage though. They mean denying treatment as an encouragement or to prove a point.

    It's not even a factor in triage.

    The patient may be or unconscious or unable to speak in which case how do you ask him if he took a vaccine? Do you stop what you're doing and start ringing around GPs? "Yeah my patient is dying, I'd like to know if he took a vaccine can you help me out?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Mr rebel


    Ah they didn’t even give the mandatory PCR testing for nightlife a go in the end. Was eager to see how that would play out.

    Anyway now with the country officially in lockdown, I wonder will Ryanair have to reimburse me now for my flight to Vienna next month. Hopefully I’ll be able to get my money back from them, or even a voucher I’d be ok with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    There's little to no proof that the unvaxxed are the cause of any of this. It's becoming a thing because states have got way too comfortable with their authoritarian policies.

    You're gleeful because people are literally being forced to do what you want by the Austrian state? We really do have many mindless megalomaniacs in our midst. The irony certainly isn't lost on me that the vast majority of supporters of these tyrannical polices are the same people crying about the rise of imagined authoritarianism in the last few years, because politicians that they didn't like get some power. Now, we've clear cut authoritarianism, and they are all on board. I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭JC01


    Up until recently there was no argument for making this vaccine a legal requirement and thereby scrapping any principles of bodily autonomy. Times are changing but you think the line should be drawn at the treatment stage?

    I’ll leave the religious part out of it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,738 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Move out of your nice house and big income and Audi car and turn your family into asylum seekers like rats living in a compound?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    As I said to another poster, not only is it wrong to deny treatment to some patients - you'd be forcing doctors and nurses to deliberately let people die right in front of them, which is also wrong but in fact it wouldn't happen.

    People with a technocratic mindset seem to think they are moving chess pieces around a board. "Oh yes we'll deny treatment to group x" It doesn't work like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Good point. Perhaps I should have said emigrate to a friendly country. Settled people with mortgages wouldn't find that easy.

    But if you're being injected against your will that is also a rat-like existence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Who gets a kidney transplant first

    An alcoholic or a non drinker?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭bb12



    what if your only choice of a kidney was from an unvaxxed person? you gonna turn it down?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The decisions aren't made on that basis.

    We don't condemn all alcoholics to death by refusing them transplants (which is what you'd be doing if you push them down the list each time their name comes up).

    Their families would sue for medical malpractice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Your all drama.

    The Hospitals are full, when a bed comes available and there are a number of covid patients needing it all things being equal the vaccinated person should get it over the unvaccinated.


    Your drama about denying treatment is not what anyone is saying, its prioritising the limited resources correctly.


    If someone is willing to make the choice to take no precautions to protect themselves, (which i dont object to) then they should be waiting in line behind the person who did take the obvious and very free vaccination to protect themselves.


    The other side of this is that people who knowingly went unvaccinated are taking the limited medical capacity needlessly away from people who need it and did all they could.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    They're talking about random spot checks I believe. Think I saw one here (Berlin) earlier todayand I'm not even sure there's been word of any lockdown.

    The other option is to get everyone who isn't vaccinated to wear a badge of some sort... Something like a yellow star...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    It isn't a factor. What you're talking about is a kind of rough justice - "the person who has behaved better deserves the bed".

    The sicker more needful person gets the bed and made-up "all things being equal" doppleganger scenarios don't come into it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    But that is EXACTLY what happens.

    People get bumped and kicked off transplant lists all the time for not meeting the medical requirements - Weight-loss , Giving up smoking , drinking etc.

    They decision is made based on who will benefit the most from the transplant and which recipient has the highest chance of successful recovery.

    An actively drinking alcoholic fails both of those criteria for a kidney for example and as such would simply not qualify for a transplant from the list - Different for a familial donor , but getting an organ from the public list you will absolutely 100% be removed from it if your lifestyle means that that organ is likely to go to waste because you are still drinking/smoking/overweight etc.

    I don't think we ever got there thankfully , but certainly in Italy and other places when they were running out of ventilators doctors were having to decide who got the ventilator and who didn't - They based that on likelihood of long term survival so they sadly had to allow some people to die because they did not have the resources.

    If a similar set of circumstances were to arise again, I'd have no real issue with vaccination status being used as one of the decision making criteria.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,566 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Mandating it for Feb 2022 won't really have much of an impact for the winter surge. I've a feeling as you say, they will see an uptick in people getting vaccinated and drop or push that date further ahead into the future.

    The UK are doing similar with mandatory vaccinations for NHS staff, but only from next April.

    Probably make more of an impact going the US route and paying or having lottos for people getting vaccinated. Carrot before the stick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Christ above, I really hope you don't believe the very words you put up here. Doesn't get much more dramatic than this.

    We've been through 4 lockdowns now where the numbers have been considered "out of control" a "public health crisis"! And yet less than 10% of the population have contracted the virus (which I believe to be an overestimation given how quick they were blame the virus on everything). And many of whom never even got any symptoms. No disrespect to those or the families of those who have died, but the severity/seriousness of the virus has been vastly exaggerated and the dogs in the street could tell you that the problems stem from how poor your health system is. The virus is like the spot light for awful health systems in the world.

    Yet again, the government are upping the rhetoric on the "antivaxrs". They are looking at austria and drooling at how they created a boogeyman out of our local "anti-vaxr". Lockdowns for the unvaccinated are just around the corner here too and in future it will be lockdowns for whoever hasn't their covid cert up to date regardless of if you recieved the initial dose or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Certainly clutching at straws these Austrians.

    A month ago it was get a free shag in a brothel if you get vaxed

    5 days ago it was full lockdown only for the unvaxed

    Today is lockdown the whole country and in February forced vaccinations for the unvaxed.


    Got to wonder what they will come up with next week. 🤦‍♂️

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,959 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If definitely does.

    Its simply with limited resources you want the best outcomes from them.

    Many of us will have been in these situation. I'm glad you haven't.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    No disrespect to those or the families of those who have died, but the severity/seriousness of the virus has been vastly exaggerated and the dogs in the street could tell you that the problems stem from how poor your health system is.

    Had we not had the lockdowns, where would we be now? How many more would have died and what in your view would have been acceptable?

    Part of the scientific route out of this is the use of vaccines. The "rhetoric on the antivaxrs" is completely justified given that their choices are based on misinformation, paranoia and selfishness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    What's the story with Sebastian Kurz? I see he had to resign on some corruption charge a month ago. Were any of these measures introduced under his watch?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Are you one of those types who think one death is too many therefore lockdowns, no matter how severe, are justified? Do you think all the lockdown related suicides are justified? Do you think death and the myriad of other shocking side effects of the vaccine are justified?

    A lockdown on the unvaccinated would create chaos. You do realise that a lockdown on the unvaccinated would harm you just as much? There would be spot checks by gardai everywhere you go. A real sick life that you feel is justified despite us having no evidence to suggest it would save lives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    That a very naive answer.


    Transplant patients are prioritised on a number of factors, as are all medical decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    2021-11-19 16_24_27-COVID-19_ Vienna brothel offers customers 30 minutes with 'lady of their choice'.png

    Ha! How naive he was to think this. He'll regret selling his body for vaccine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,179 ✭✭✭eggy81


    So many people have lost the complete run of themselves with this dose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    So how exactly would a mandate work?

    I'm assuming they don't kick in your door at 2am, tie you down and force it into your arm? 😂

    Or do they just weld you into your home, and post police outside so you're a prisoner?

    And what about eating or other essential stuff? Will you have a personal servant to get you stuff 24/7?

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    I'm just trying to imagine unvaxxed people running through the streets of Vienna, trying to evade the authorities.

    With crack teams of snipers shooting them with those tranquilizer rifles they use to take down animals in the wild, only with vaccine darts instead. 😋

    We're moving into a dystopian future!

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



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