Why is rugby/the Irish rugby team so popular?

sydthebeat · 16-11-2021 08:54AM

Why are people surprised that school kids that get 7 or 8 hours a week of paid high level rugby coaching go on to higher prospects than kids that get 3 hours a week volunteer coaching in clubs?

What is surprising or wrong with any of that?

To me it's the same as giving out when the young Irish kids of 14 who goes off to join an English soccer academy are selected for the national team ahead of a player who made his way up the ranks of the LOI.

The kids that get the best opportunities go on, in general, to higher levels, in every sport. There's no big elitist conspiracy here

Tom Mann Centuria · 16-11-2021 09:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173076#Comment_118173076

Nothing surprising about money helping people rise to the top. That's the world we live in.

Poorside · 16-11-2021 09:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172775#Comment_118172775

"The majority of fans don't understand the game or the rules"

Thats absolutely garbage, just because you don't understand them doesn't mean most of the people watching don't.

Blue4u · 16-11-2021 09:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173076#Comment_118173076

You will also find a lot of the school offer scholarships to kids as well. Without going to each school the most famous is Blackrock and they have a "Access Blackrock" programme available.

The problem I see with English academies is that in the World you have 270 million professional players. You have a maybe 0.5% of those players who are the Messi etc and are bringing in huge money. Then another 2% maybe on big wages. The rest are not, so players moving at a young age, dumped over into another country and then supposed to be become a star? the chances are very small. Ireland would be better if we developed our own academy system for young Irish players, better young players would mean a better league. But to do that you need all of the "soccer" fans around ireland to actually support the local club. Not sit in a pub all weekend watching the Premiership and bit*hing about rugby 😂 while telling everyone they "hate the English"

Fr Tod Umptious · 16-11-2021 09:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173076#Comment_118173076

Nothing is surprising about it.

But the opportunity for that 7 to 8 hours a week of paid high level rugby coaching is only available to those that can afford to go to a private school.

Thus they get a better chance of becoming professional and making the national team.

Is that really that difficult to understand ?

square ball · 16-11-2021 09:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173005#Comment_118173005

Very very few mainstream pundits will say anything negative about the game or gameplan even when it was shite. It's all spin spin spin in the Irish media, even after the flop at the World Cup there was no real questioning of what we were doing. We have a history of messing up our cycle and flying when everyone else was expanding their options and building for the tournament. We are still depending 36 year old Jonny Sexton to do something at the next world cup.

The style of rugby was becoming turgid under the latter stages of Schmidt's reign, box kicking the ball away time and again, Murray slowing the game down, looking for big hits and no offloads but you'd swear we were reinventing the wheel with the fawning over it.

It is becoming more and more popular underage, 20 years ago I knew 4 or 5 lads living around that played any bit at all with a club now there's 4 or 5 at every age group playing from my GAA club.

I like the game generally but there's a lot of bullshit that goes along with it that's very off putting.

starkid · 16-11-2021 09:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170635#Comment_118170635

eh yeah there was agreement between the GAA and the IRFU so what are you on about? and you're now delving into societal issues. GAA is the number 1 sport in Ireland. Thus it got funding and planning to build a huge number of stadia. The IRFU is less supported so has less stadia. Whats the issue here? i don't get it. Soccer has been screwed in all of this. 500k active participants but the facilities are a joke. the GAA has clearly been handed a golden goose over the years so its hardly all self generated.

the bid was very close. The Scots shafted us. ironically if the bid had won the GAA stadiums would have been upgraded. some of them are a joke.

the only deluded fantasies are the people in these types of forum saying this about rugby. I've played rugby my whole life, in a club. I've played in hundreds of clubs, talked to hundreds of rugby folks. Not one pats themselves on the back and saids oh yeah isn't rugby so popular. its a fantasy you've come up with. your beating irish rugby over something that doesn't exist.

And the IRFU has excellent facilities. Four training bases, five stadiums, a national stadium. My point about facilities was in terms of a large event. OUr club facilities in sport are non existant. go to a French town and see the diffence, and it muncipilty facilities not tribal bullshit.

starkid · 16-11-2021 10:00AM

some really weird people on this thread.

Nobody in rugby professes it to be the mostt popular sport.

Every single rugby fan hates the vodafone ad. But what are the IRFU meant to do..say to their pr and marketing guys, no don't hype us. ffs

https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/RS97_0.pdf

Rugby is the 4th most popular sport. arguably Soccer is number 1 in terms of male participants.

PErsonally my gripe with GAA is that its insular. Culturally its great, for society etc. But for us as a sporting nation on an international level, not so much. We'd be competing for tonnes of stuff at international level. Like Croatia, our soccer team would probably be fantastic. Ironically with a country so obsessed with its image on an international level, we chose the most insular sport. fair enough, i just wish the GAA would do a better job at trying to export it.

PArt of the reason rugby is popular (4th most) is because its us competing on an international stage. And people can say oh there is only 7 or 8 teams. But some of those teams are huge countries with ten times our population. Some of those are where rugby is their national sport. Theres a myriad of reasons rugby has so few teams. and a whole load of reasons soccer is more popular. ditto gaa, there's nothing rugby can do about it, and nobody in rugby thinks otherwise. Rugby needs to grow the sport and is actively pursuing that goal. Its a technical sport, and yes is a niche sport by its very definition. As if thats an insult.

RTE did a documentary on rugby. people should watch it. it explains alot. rugby was an elitist game from it inception and has spent a century trying to unwind that. what do people want the sport to do? blow up Blackrock or Grey College?

Soccer in the UK started as a working mans game, its now England's version of GAA enjoyed by nearly every class.

This debate is just a very weird hangup Irish people have.

Personally i do think the IRFU needs to actively pursue a club somewhere in the NIC or in the Fairview/Drumcondra region, 1 that isn't Clontarf. Also needs to really figure out whats going on at a school like Michaels and try to replicate it.

HAving a future irish team composed of St Michaels lads won't be good for anybody.

sydthebeat · 16-11-2021 10:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173218#Comment_118173218

Not at all.

Its the same in most walks of life.

What's "difficult to understand" is why people seem to have an issue with it.

Best trained people succeed higher

square ball · 16-11-2021 10:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173117#Comment_118173117

Go to a game and listen to the 'fans' around you. They don't have a clue what's going on half the time. Similarly in pubs up and down the country the majority don't know the rules but that's not only applicable to rugby to be fair.

Have a discussion about rugby with rugby fans and see if anyone has any independent thoughts on the game or something to say that doesn't come from RTE or Virgin Media pundits.

Or maybe I wouldn't understand because I never played it😂

generic_throwaway · 16-11-2021 10:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173218#Comment_118173218

The coaching in most schools is done by volunteers or teachers. Again, don't that get in the way of your narrative.

generic_throwaway · 16-11-2021 10:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173235#Comment_118173235

Not true. In the final year of Schmidt's (very successful) tenure it was very apparent that other teams had worked out how to play Ireland and that the wheels were coming off. And it was widely discussed and reported on. Not sure where you are getting this 'fawning' stuff from - perhaps you are referring to the Grand Slam in 2018, the year before it all went wrong? Do you not think winning a Grand Slam merited some degree of praise for the team at all?

generic_throwaway · 16-11-2021 10:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173378#Comment_118173378

If you had played it, you might understand that catching an oval ball kicked 120 feet into the air over your head under pressure from a bunch of other athletes is not a 'basic skill'. Or have some sense of the physical courage required to step onto the field at all.

Fr Tod Umptious · 16-11-2021 10:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171487#Comment_118171487

So what if the government and the NI Executive were supporting the bid, that does not mean that it would have been profitable.

Have you been to an intercounty GAA ground ?

They are primarily open terraced areas with one side covered seating.

They are good for two things.

In the summer for the big championship games they are fine because the weather is decent and the evenings are long so you don't need that much cover or floodlights.

In the winter for club games they are fine because the covered sections would be big enough to cater for the smaller attendances.

So they are prefect for the requirements of the GAA

But they are a long way off what would be required for a RWC, and they would need huge huge upgrades that would essentially turn them into white elephants.

I'm a GAA fan, but what I hate in the GAA is stadium vanity projects, there are too many of them, too many big stadium redevelopments on stadiums that rarely get full.

The RWC would have only exacerbated that.

And knowing our national tendency for costs of infrastructure to just rise and rise and rise it would have been a money pit for the Irish nation.

There is plenty on this site from a UCC professor about how hosting events like this do not offer a return to the economy

https://www.sportseconomics.org/

Blue4u · 16-11-2021 10:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173378#Comment_118173378

Well that's a load of rubbish. If you did go to the game you will find the majority of people fully understand the laws(they are not called rules by the way in rugby). People in pubs are supposed to be a indication of rugby in Ireland? the same person 30 second later will be shouting for MMA and tell you they know all the rules for that as well. If they have any.

Another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up. The laws are fairly simple so it's not hard to pick them up for the new fans

square ball · 16-11-2021 10:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173411#Comment_118173411

The style of rugby was bad to watch for a long time before the results followed. It was successful but awful to watch. Schmidt got rid of players that played off the cuff or tried something different it was far too structured and rigid.

We won a Grand Slam in 2018 when the other 6 Nations sides were building their squads for the World Cup.

Ireland went into the world cup thinking we were going to win it and got beaten by Japan FFS.

Fr Tod Umptious · 16-11-2021 10:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173390#Comment_118173390

It was another poster who said "7 to 8 hours a week of paid high level rugby coaching", I just referenced what they said.

But a quick google would infer that they are not far off

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/schools-rugby/two-or-three-per-cent-of-each-year-go-professional-at-the-moment-how-one-school-has-become-irish-rugbys-biggest-production-line-36482484.html

Blue4u · 16-11-2021 10:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173235#Comment_118173235

Well that's not true, up till the England game this year the entire rugby media was after the Irish team. "Can someone please explain to me what they are trying to do" was the question asked by everyone. Even today I was listening to podcast and they mentioned how fast the progress has been since a poorish 6 nations.

So from your comments it is clear you don't watch rugby or follow it. Can you please explain to me why you have an issue with it? to me it is baffling that you just hate a sport because someone else watch's it?

16-11-2021 10:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170480#Comment_118170480

That’s unusual actually. The stats I showed for the last year showed that rugby dominated soccer and was about even with GAA in terms of viewership. That said it’s the 6 nations that dominates, not the autumn series. And Portugal have Ronaldo.

square ball · 16-11-2021 10:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173424#Comment_118173424

Go to a GAA match and see that it's a basic skill of the game to catch high ball over your head.

Players are brave I'll give you that and picking themselves up to go get stuck into tackles knowing you are going to get hurt again shows that but skill levels are relatively low if you have the right physique you will go a long way.

square ball · 16-11-2021 10:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173478#Comment_118173478

My apologies, most don't understand the laws.

I have been to plenty rugby games and the majority of fans cannot understand what penalties are given for unless they have someone explain it. It is hard to see what happens at the breakdown live in person to be fair but these people are regular attendee's of games.

Blue4u · 16-11-2021 10:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173534#Comment_118173534

Yes plenty of games but you are not aware nobody calls them rules. Your story is blown up with that one comment.

It is very easy to see what happens, also if you can't see just buy the ref mic(I am sure you know about that) which you can listen in and get told exactly why the penalty was given.

16-11-2021 10:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170176#Comment_118170176

It would be interesting to look at the statistics for the 6 nations viewership in 2001. It was the era of Brian O’Driscoll and Ireland stopped England from winning a grand slam.

that’s the thing - watching Ireland play international rugby is not a new fad at all. There’s no bandwagon jumping either because Ireland have only been alright for the last decade or so. And hopeless in world cups.

square ball · 16-11-2021 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173547#Comment_118173547

They are rules in every other sport. Slip of the tongue so to speak, rugby isn't my first choice of sport so don't have the lingo down🤔

It is usually very easy to see what happened bar maybe a breakdown at the other end of the pitch and you would think the deep thinking rugby fans would understand the intricacies of the game but alas many are there for the day out like myself.

Blue4u · 16-11-2021 11:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173582#Comment_118173582

It's not lingo, it's the very basic of the sport. It would be like walking into a GAA match and not knowing what a solo is called. It is clear you never have gone to a game or watched a game on TV.

I noticed you haven't answered why you hate the sport or feel the need to comment on it? I don't see thread on GAA or soccer full of people telling them how sh**e that sport is yet we have these rugby hate threads every few months. What is the big problem with someone else liking a sport?

sydthebeat · 16-11-2021 11:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173582#Comment_118173582

the more you post, the more you show you know very very little about the game. maybe youd be better off finding out more about it before forming an option.... because there are words for people who spout ill informed opinions

square ball · 16-11-2021 11:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173606#Comment_118173606

A bit different a solo is one of the rules, it would be more like me calling the rules of Gaelic Football laws of Gaelic Football and it most definitely is lingo.

I don't hate the game I enjoy watching it from time to time, our style of rugby isn't great to watch, it's based on hard work, power and limiting mistakes. I like watching Southern Hemisphere rugby where there is pace and skill used to attack and beat teams rather than trying not to lose.

Obviously I have seen the game on TV and I can assure you I have been to games in person, even did one of those group dinner things once where players come up after the game, go around and talk shite with fans for a half hour, take a few pictures and feck off.

I dislike some of the bullshit that comes with the game which I have mentioned already but was commenting on why it is so popular.

16-11-2021 11:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173582#Comment_118173582

How are making the argument that rugby isn’t popular if you actually go watch a game?

im a perfectly casual fan of rugby who has never watched a game live but will watch the 6N like much of the country.

arguments about rules or about private schools don’t really matter. No doubt rugby’s popularity isn’t as deep as the GAA, it’s not rooted deep in communities, but for a casual watcher of sports it is popular.

square ball · 16-11-2021 11:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173684#Comment_118173684

I wasn't saying it isn't popular, it is popular and becoming more popular. The poster was trying to say I don't understand the game or have seen matches either live or on TV because I called the rules of the game rules instead of laws.

It is becoming more and more popular outside of the big towns and cities with parents bringing kids to play with existing clubs that would never had played the game.

Blue4u · 16-11-2021 11:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173716#Comment_118173716

Make sure to not let the truth get in the way now.

You claimed nobody had a clue going on at the games you attended. I am just pointing out that if you did go to a game you would have at least picked up the basics which would include knowing they are called laws and not rules. This would suggest a few porkies are been told to try make a point.

Now you are saying the sport is growing, do you still claim that those people bringing kids to clubs don't understand the laws? or that they have an opinion which they didn't pick up from "RTE & virgin"?

Why is rugby/the Irish rugby team so popular?

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