Why is rugby/the Irish rugby team so popular?

StupidLikeAFox

Not a massive rugby fan but it is nice to watch a competitive irish team. The 6 nations is great in particular - 4 of the 6 teams have a realistic chance of winning every year, Scotland have an outside chance of winning but aren't pushovers and have a chance of influencing things at least. It keeps things interesting. Would be great to see them click at the world cup

Have to say its a terrible sport to watch live. Was in the aviva a couple of times and unless the action is right in front of you, you are just looking at a pile of bodies for a lot of the match, compared to the detail/insight you see on the tv

square ball

Rugby is well marketed across the country. The media have helped drive it from a minority sport to a popular one.

The provincial set ups have given every person a team to support similar to GAA you are a born fan of your area so naturally there's a connection if you have any interest and this helped grow the support. Success on the field has helped grow the popularity of the game and Irish rugby has been competitive at the top of the 6 Nations and European club game for most of the last 20 years.

I've been to a few Munster games over the years, it's a great day out, good atmosphere and an excuse for a piss up. I'd watch most games on TV but could take it or leave it at times. Saturday evening games were ideal for an excuse to go to the pub early and it gathered a crowd and a following.

I find the majority of fans don't really understand the game or rules but enjoy the craic with it and that's fair enough. I work in Limerick and majority of people interested in the game are now big hurling fans and experts since 2018 as well and couldn't name 3 players before then but that's what happens when teams go well🤔 A lot of the fans that started supporting Munster were people that didn't play or support Soccer or the GAA so getting them on board was a massive coup. Ireland soccer team going to pot has helped to convert casual fans too.

The bandwagon element has turned me off the game a bit and also the fawning over mediocre players, performances and double standards when Ireland bottle World Cup games every 4 years. Each player is better than the last and everyone of them is a 'warrior' and 'legend' of the game. The most basic skills get lauded such as lads catching Garryowens over their heads for the last few years.

Despite what the ex players would have you believe the skill levels are relatively low if you have the right physique you could go a long way in the game and we have seen lads pick up the game late in life to become Irish internationals. If there was a bit more balanced informed debate by former players and fans I would enjoy watching the game more. I've yet to hear anyone give a good reason as to why we can't perform in a World Cup with such quality in our squads, it's almost like we're too good and confuse ourselves in World Cups. Every move Stephen Kenny makes is discussed win or lose.

Neil Francis on Today FM used to highlight most of what I dislike about the game and made me hate it for a while even. Every other sport in Ireland can be criticized for its failings bar rugby for some reason.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164049#Comment_118164049

So let me get this straight you are saying a person like me who due to a disability so could not play said sports can not be a fan and gave enjoyment. Go and jog the f on. And I also say that for all the people who find enjoyment in watching sport who never played it for whatever reason

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058217794/why-is-rugby-the-irish-rugby-team-so-popular

OP, you're an ignoramus.

Like most bigots you haven't got a rat's ass clue what you're talking about. You take a bunch of half-understood misconceived notions, spin it into a straw man's argument and then say: "I'd just like to know what people think"

To dismiss your vapid and perfunctory "questions" individually

1: Yes. There is a problem with head injuries in rugby. Just as there is in other sports. Is the answer to ban the game completely or to take firm steps to mitigate the risk? I would suggest the latter.

The game needs to remain extremely vigilant about head contacts and to limit the number of times this happens to any one person in a game. This is done through a concerted effort of training, coaching and enforcement. And awareness. This is happening now at all levels and rightly so.

Would you ban boxing, completely, for example? Well off you go into Portland Row and tell Kellie Harrington that so.

2 Why is rugby the preserve of "private schools"? Well, it isn't in most of the country. In Leinster in general, and Dublin in particular, it is popular in many such schools but that is because most of them are situated in Dublin and its environs. Rugby is not a street game. It's a highly technical game with very specific roles and needs to be coached properly. (See comments above about head injuries). People need to learn how to tackle properly and safely, how to scrummage properly and safely, how to form rucks and mauls properly and safely. This isn't something you can pick up on the street like soccer or basketball.

I suspect though you're really dog whistling about "middle class" people trying to exclude the "working class" (whatever that means in today's world) from its pastimes. But that's just nonsense. Rugby is actually a very inclusive game everywhere it is played. In all of the countries in which it is popular, it has adherents among the middle classes certainly but also there are regions where it is everyman's game. These include Limerick in Ireland, the Border region of Scotland, the Welsh valleys and the West country of England.

So you don't like the salaried middle class? Fine. Clear off and watch the millionaire classes playing soccer and trying to hide their wealth by describing it in terms of a weekly wage. But don't let them kid you. NOBODY earns £150k a week; that's £7.5MILLION a year. And they don't rock up to the accounts hatch every Friday with their lunchbox wrapped up in their playing gear to receive their remuneration in a windowed envelope of used fivers. There are offshore accounts and various investment instruments, arranged at great expense by armies of consultants and advisers, to facilitate all that. Usually, I believe, it's all legal and above board but even Saint Lionel Messi fell foul of the tax authorities a few years back.

3 You object to foreigners qualifying for the Irish team "after 6 months or a year" and say it "feels wrong".

Yet you're presumably quite happy when some England or Scotland reject swans into the Irish soccer side just because he's been made aware of the fact that he has a single Irish born grandparent he's never heard of before???? What a hypocrite!!

For a start: the qualification period for people of no Irish ancestry to play for the rugby team has been three years until recently and has now been put up to five years, mainly because of the systematic way Ireland recruited while staying WITHIN the laws that apply to everyone. I don't really object to the law change but all it will mean is that recruiters will now go back to scrutinising birth and ancestry records rather than enticing the likes of Bundee Aki and James Lowe to commit to a career in Ireland.

And so what if they do? This is the 21st century. People migrate to further their careers but don't necessarily do it permanently. The best people go to where the best opportunities are available. And in Ireland, rugby is almost uniquely a professional sport with top-class local teams that attract good players from abroad. And they do so because local people are prepared to pay to watch these teams regularly. Fair play to them.

Do you really think it preferable that all the enthusiasm in Irish soccer goes to globalised dot.com brand entities for hire in the English premiership owned by some of the dodgiest proprietors in international business? What on earth is so "working class" and egalitarian about feeding the vanity of ruthless oil barons, from Russia or the medieval monarchies of the middle east? Or gambling impressarios from Asia or the dregs of the vulture capitalist class from Britain?

You want to profess your loyalty to "Unoited" or "Orsenal" or "Chelski" be my guest. But don't expect me to be impressed. I'll stick to supporting a team that plays locally, in front of local support, is one of the best club level sides in the world and contributes greatly to the strength of the Irish team. Meanwhile Irish soccer players will populate clubs in the nether regions of the English premiership or the Championship, or even League 1 (what we used to call the Third Division). Ever since the Bosman ruling and the globalisation of soccer recruitment, Irish soccer has floundered because our players can't get into the big sides any more.

If you don't want to watch Irish rugby then don't. I suspect you're not much of a loss.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172775#Comment_118172775

If you have yet to hear why Ireland isn't good at the World Cup you are not really looking are you? multiple people have released multiple articles and it is discussed to death. Even yesterday it was the topic on the radio is Ireland peaking too soon. The internet is awash with podcast which some are pro Ireland and a lot are not. A few people figured out fairly quick that been the negative voice was better than been positive.

The level of analysis on rugby is similar to soccer so not sure why you think it isn't. Not sure about Stephen Kenny and analysis, most of the time I am not even aware they are playing and when I have tried to watch a few games it is terrible boring stuff.

Neil Francis? 😂 Franno was the ultimate troll journalist....its like saying you dont like soccer because of Eamo

Tom Mann Centuria

Most people couldn't give a flyer about class, (but undeniably elite level Rugby Union has a disproportionate number of players from private education) and just like to see their team do well/win, and Ireland and the Provinces often do well/win, that helps a great deal in maintaining it's popularity.

The Ireland women's team was much more evident in the media when it was winning, considerably less so with their current form.

I don't enjoy watching, it's overly complicated and stop start for me. Kick, kick kick, mass of humans in a pile on the ground, wait for the ref to (arbitrarily?) point one way or the other, you may or may not know the reason why, repeat.

Don't find it difficult to avoid watching/reading/talking about it though, and if other people enjoy it I'm not adversely affected so why should I care.

sydthebeat

Why are people surprised that school kids that get 7 or 8 hours a week of paid high level rugby coaching go on to higher prospects than kids that get 3 hours a week volunteer coaching in clubs?

What is surprising or wrong with any of that?

To me it's the same as giving out when the young Irish kids of 14 who goes off to join an English soccer academy are selected for the national team ahead of a player who made his way up the ranks of the LOI.

The kids that get the best opportunities go on, in general, to higher levels, in every sport. There's no big elitist conspiracy here

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173076#Comment_118173076

Nothing surprising about money helping people rise to the top. That's the world we live in.

Poorside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172775#Comment_118172775

"The majority of fans don't understand the game or the rules"

Thats absolutely garbage, just because you don't understand them doesn't mean most of the people watching don't.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173076#Comment_118173076

You will also find a lot of the school offer scholarships to kids as well. Without going to each school the most famous is Blackrock and they have a "Access Blackrock" programme available.

The problem I see with English academies is that in the World you have 270 million professional players. You have a maybe 0.5% of those players who are the Messi etc and are bringing in huge money. Then another 2% maybe on big wages. The rest are not, so players moving at a young age, dumped over into another country and then supposed to be become a star? the chances are very small. Ireland would be better if we developed our own academy system for young Irish players, better young players would mean a better league. But to do that you need all of the "soccer" fans around ireland to actually support the local club. Not sit in a pub all weekend watching the Premiership and bit*hing about rugby 😂 while telling everyone they "hate the English"

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173076#Comment_118173076

Nothing is surprising about it.

But the opportunity for that 7 to 8 hours a week of paid high level rugby coaching is only available to those that can afford to go to a private school.

Thus they get a better chance of becoming professional and making the national team.

Is that really that difficult to understand ?

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173005#Comment_118173005

Very very few mainstream pundits will say anything negative about the game or gameplan even when it was shite. It's all spin spin spin in the Irish media, even after the flop at the World Cup there was no real questioning of what we were doing. We have a history of messing up our cycle and flying when everyone else was expanding their options and building for the tournament. We are still depending 36 year old Jonny Sexton to do something at the next world cup.

The style of rugby was becoming turgid under the latter stages of Schmidt's reign, box kicking the ball away time and again, Murray slowing the game down, looking for big hits and no offloads but you'd swear we were reinventing the wheel with the fawning over it.

It is becoming more and more popular underage, 20 years ago I knew 4 or 5 lads living around that played any bit at all with a club now there's 4 or 5 at every age group playing from my GAA club.

I like the game generally but there's a lot of bullshit that goes along with it that's very off putting.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170635#Comment_118170635

eh yeah there was agreement between the GAA and the IRFU so what are you on about? and you're now delving into societal issues. GAA is the number 1 sport in Ireland. Thus it got funding and planning to build a huge number of stadia. The IRFU is less supported so has less stadia. Whats the issue here? i don't get it. Soccer has been screwed in all of this. 500k active participants but the facilities are a joke. the GAA has clearly been handed a golden goose over the years so its hardly all self generated.

the bid was very close. The Scots shafted us. ironically if the bid had won the GAA stadiums would have been upgraded. some of them are a joke.

the only deluded fantasies are the people in these types of forum saying this about rugby. I've played rugby my whole life, in a club. I've played in hundreds of clubs, talked to hundreds of rugby folks. Not one pats themselves on the back and saids oh yeah isn't rugby so popular. its a fantasy you've come up with. your beating irish rugby over something that doesn't exist.

And the IRFU has excellent facilities. Four training bases, five stadiums, a national stadium. My point about facilities was in terms of a large event. OUr club facilities in sport are non existant. go to a French town and see the diffence, and it muncipilty facilities not tribal bullshit.

starkid

some really weird people on this thread.

Nobody in rugby professes it to be the mostt popular sport.

Every single rugby fan hates the vodafone ad. But what are the IRFU meant to do..say to their pr and marketing guys, no don't hype us. ffs

https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/RS97_0.pdf

Rugby is the 4th most popular sport. arguably Soccer is number 1 in terms of male participants.

PErsonally my gripe with GAA is that its insular. Culturally its great, for society etc. But for us as a sporting nation on an international level, not so much. We'd be competing for tonnes of stuff at international level. Like Croatia, our soccer team would probably be fantastic. Ironically with a country so obsessed with its image on an international level, we chose the most insular sport. fair enough, i just wish the GAA would do a better job at trying to export it.

PArt of the reason rugby is popular (4th most) is because its us competing on an international stage. And people can say oh there is only 7 or 8 teams. But some of those teams are huge countries with ten times our population. Some of those are where rugby is their national sport. Theres a myriad of reasons rugby has so few teams. and a whole load of reasons soccer is more popular. ditto gaa, there's nothing rugby can do about it, and nobody in rugby thinks otherwise. Rugby needs to grow the sport and is actively pursuing that goal. Its a technical sport, and yes is a niche sport by its very definition. As if thats an insult.

RTE did a documentary on rugby. people should watch it. it explains alot. rugby was an elitist game from it inception and has spent a century trying to unwind that. what do people want the sport to do? blow up Blackrock or Grey College?

Soccer in the UK started as a working mans game, its now England's version of GAA enjoyed by nearly every class.

This debate is just a very weird hangup Irish people have.

Personally i do think the IRFU needs to actively pursue a club somewhere in the NIC or in the Fairview/Drumcondra region, 1 that isn't Clontarf. Also needs to really figure out whats going on at a school like Michaels and try to replicate it.

HAving a future irish team composed of St Michaels lads won't be good for anybody.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173218#Comment_118173218

Not at all.

Its the same in most walks of life.

What's "difficult to understand" is why people seem to have an issue with it.

Best trained people succeed higher

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173117#Comment_118173117

Go to a game and listen to the 'fans' around you. They don't have a clue what's going on half the time. Similarly in pubs up and down the country the majority don't know the rules but that's not only applicable to rugby to be fair.

Have a discussion about rugby with rugby fans and see if anyone has any independent thoughts on the game or something to say that doesn't come from RTE or Virgin Media pundits.

Or maybe I wouldn't understand because I never played it😂

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173218#Comment_118173218

The coaching in most schools is done by volunteers or teachers. Again, don't that get in the way of your narrative.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173235#Comment_118173235

Not true. In the final year of Schmidt's (very successful) tenure it was very apparent that other teams had worked out how to play Ireland and that the wheels were coming off. And it was widely discussed and reported on. Not sure where you are getting this 'fawning' stuff from - perhaps you are referring to the Grand Slam in 2018, the year before it all went wrong? Do you not think winning a Grand Slam merited some degree of praise for the team at all?

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173378#Comment_118173378

If you had played it, you might understand that catching an oval ball kicked 120 feet into the air over your head under pressure from a bunch of other athletes is not a 'basic skill'. Or have some sense of the physical courage required to step onto the field at all.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171487#Comment_118171487

So what if the government and the NI Executive were supporting the bid, that does not mean that it would have been profitable.

Have you been to an intercounty GAA ground ?

They are primarily open terraced areas with one side covered seating.

They are good for two things.

In the summer for the big championship games they are fine because the weather is decent and the evenings are long so you don't need that much cover or floodlights.

In the winter for club games they are fine because the covered sections would be big enough to cater for the smaller attendances.

So they are prefect for the requirements of the GAA

But they are a long way off what would be required for a RWC, and they would need huge huge upgrades that would essentially turn them into white elephants.

I'm a GAA fan, but what I hate in the GAA is stadium vanity projects, there are too many of them, too many big stadium redevelopments on stadiums that rarely get full.

The RWC would have only exacerbated that.

And knowing our national tendency for costs of infrastructure to just rise and rise and rise it would have been a money pit for the Irish nation.

There is plenty on this site from a UCC professor about how hosting events like this do not offer a return to the economy

https://www.sportseconomics.org/

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173378#Comment_118173378

Well that's a load of rubbish. If you did go to the game you will find the majority of people fully understand the laws(they are not called rules by the way in rugby). People in pubs are supposed to be a indication of rugby in Ireland? the same person 30 second later will be shouting for MMA and tell you they know all the rules for that as well. If they have any.

Another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up. The laws are fairly simple so it's not hard to pick them up for the new fans

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173411#Comment_118173411

The style of rugby was bad to watch for a long time before the results followed. It was successful but awful to watch. Schmidt got rid of players that played off the cuff or tried something different it was far too structured and rigid.

We won a Grand Slam in 2018 when the other 6 Nations sides were building their squads for the World Cup.

Ireland went into the world cup thinking we were going to win it and got beaten by Japan FFS.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173390#Comment_118173390

It was another poster who said "7 to 8 hours a week of paid high level rugby coaching", I just referenced what they said.

But a quick google would infer that they are not far off

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/schools-rugby/two-or-three-per-cent-of-each-year-go-professional-at-the-moment-how-one-school-has-become-irish-rugbys-biggest-production-line-36482484.html

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173235#Comment_118173235

Well that's not true, up till the England game this year the entire rugby media was after the Irish team. "Can someone please explain to me what they are trying to do" was the question asked by everyone. Even today I was listening to podcast and they mentioned how fast the progress has been since a poorish 6 nations.

So from your comments it is clear you don't watch rugby or follow it. Can you please explain to me why you have an issue with it? to me it is baffling that you just hate a sport because someone else watch's it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170480#Comment_118170480

That’s unusual actually. The stats I showed for the last year showed that rugby dominated soccer and was about even with GAA in terms of viewership. That said it’s the 6 nations that dominates, not the autumn series. And Portugal have Ronaldo.

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173424#Comment_118173424

Go to a GAA match and see that it's a basic skill of the game to catch high ball over your head.

Players are brave I'll give you that and picking themselves up to go get stuck into tackles knowing you are going to get hurt again shows that but skill levels are relatively low if you have the right physique you will go a long way.

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173478#Comment_118173478

My apologies, most don't understand the laws.

I have been to plenty rugby games and the majority of fans cannot understand what penalties are given for unless they have someone explain it. It is hard to see what happens at the breakdown live in person to be fair but these people are regular attendee's of games.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173534#Comment_118173534

Yes plenty of games but you are not aware nobody calls them rules. Your story is blown up with that one comment.

It is very easy to see what happens, also if you can't see just buy the ref mic(I am sure you know about that) which you can listen in and get told exactly why the penalty was given.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170176#Comment_118170176

It would be interesting to look at the statistics for the 6 nations viewership in 2001. It was the era of Brian O’Driscoll and Ireland stopped England from winning a grand slam.

that’s the thing - watching Ireland play international rugby is not a new fad at all. There’s no bandwagon jumping either because Ireland have only been alright for the last decade or so. And hopeless in world cups.

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173547#Comment_118173547

They are rules in every other sport. Slip of the tongue so to speak, rugby isn't my first choice of sport so don't have the lingo down🤔

It is usually very easy to see what happened bar maybe a breakdown at the other end of the pitch and you would think the deep thinking rugby fans would understand the intricacies of the game but alas many are there for the day out like myself.