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Religion and Engaging with the Teacher

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You can believe in things that have nothing to do with religion. I believe Ireland won't win the next world cup. I've no proof. They may actually win.

    An absence of something actually an identifiable thing.

    That said I don't think there should be religious education in state funded schools.

    I just don't understand how someone hasn't planned for this before a kids starts school. They've known for a least 4~5yrs its going to an issue. I assume you'd know long before that as well, discussed it with a partner etc.

    If some said you know what. I'm going to demand my rights, not to have religious education on the local school. I'm going to meet that battle head on. I say fair play. I support that 100%. What I don't get is just sleep walking into it, saying I've no choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    right... what do you propose they do?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,505 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Grow a set and tell the school straight out.

    Or else suck it up like they’ve done for the past year or two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Some of the atheists (or some of the ones siding with the OP, anyway) are putting forth some pretty dishonest arguments here. You might want to ask yourselves if you’re sure you’re on the right side if you can’t argue your case honestly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    what "dishonest" arguments would those be?

    Pretending that a system where over 90% of primary schools are under the control of a church is perfectly fine - that seems pretty dishonest to me.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It was a bogus question.

    It's the same circular argument. I can only go to this one extremely religious school. How do I avoid all religion at this school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    No, you said this:

    I just don't understand how someone hasn't planned for this before a kids starts school. They've known for a least 4~5yrs its going to an issue. 

    So what exactly should they have done in those 4-5 years?

    And they have a constitutional right to opt their child out of religion at school btw.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They shouldn't have done nothing about it anyway. Which is a common theme on these threads.

    I see parents doing all sorts of things to get into specific school, pretend to separate, rent a house, buy a house, move in with their parent, move house, move county, move country etc. Be part of lobby groups, get ET built, get catchments areas changed, lots of things. All these things involved compromises, and hardship. often its about getting into a better school, a different peer group, different education methods, etc.

    Arguably religion and avoiding it would be more important than all these things. So why put less effort in achieving what you want. It doesn't add up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I get why you're so fanatical./hardline about it. I just think its a little unrealistic.

    You might be interested in this thread... https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058215428/why-are-there-so-few-state-owned-state-run-schools-in-ireland#latest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Saying people should "just move" or even better "set up a school" is laughably unrealistic. We have well under half of marriages now taking place in a church, yet about 94% of schools are church controlled. You can't move to get a school place if there are no places left there.

    Anyway, why should anyone have to move for their child to be treated equally and with equal respect in a school? That's saying it's OK for certain schools to treat some kids like shít. It's not OK. It's never OK.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Yet other people managed to fill those spaces. How did everyone else get in?

    Making excuses and hyperbole isn't getting going to get anyone anywhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Living locally and applying at birth, usually.

    It's not acceptable that well over 90% of schools are run by a church yet funded by the state. I'm not the one making excuses, you are.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well those admission policies at least you could plan around.

    But those policies are seen unfair as it bias towards long term locals. It creates a school population that doesn't mirror recent population changes. So policies recently have been changed to not favour long term residents.

    So now its a lottery regardless of how long you've been an area, often you can only apply in the year before the child attends school. So someone from Cork who moves to say Dublin school a year before schools starts has exactly the same chance as someone who has lived their for 50yrs. its mostly based on the child age and their current permanent location.

    The downside is there no incentive to be resident in a area, once you get a place. Also locals can't get a place. So you get a lot of kids being ferried all over the place and the school and its community becomes disconnected from the locality in which its located.

    But that's what society wanted. That's what it got. The social media generation, wants immediate gratification, or in this case change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Like I said its a catch 22. You're not open to any compromise. So asking for suggestions is disingenuous. You only want exactly what you want, and you want it instantly. There is no solution (that I know of) to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So you get a lot of kids being ferried all over the place and the school and its community becomes disconnected from the locality in which its located.

    Which is exactly what you suggested non-catholic parents should be doing - "find another school" or "just move"! Make up your mind. Or is it only catholic parents who have a right to be connected with their local community?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    You're basically asking how people can guaranteed a place. I'm explaining why no one can. No one is special in that regard.

    Schools in rural areas are closing though lack of numbers. City schools are over subscribed.

    Location, location location.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Arguing dishonestly or honestly is mutually exclusive to being right or wrong.


    Flat earthers can argue honestly and round pro-vaxers can argue dishonestly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    " You're basically asking how people can guaranteed a place."


    I think that's muddying the waters.

    It:s a right to education which we take to be universal. Not based on your baptism certificate, or lack thereof being the decider who gets the education.

    I'd be very annoyed if a surgical team insisted on a group prayer before surgery, with a priest blessing the area... That's assuming I get past hospital reception without a baptism cert!


    But ya I know, I could just go away and build my own hospital, or move near a non denominational one.


    A state education and health have nothing to do with indoctrination.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    You can no longer apply at birth for most schools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    That's a recent change. (which I mentioned earlier) Anyone complaining about a child in school now. Had an opportunity to be on a waiting list, so they are complaining about a situation that didn't exist when their child applied for schools.

    ...

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Where is there a state education with zero exposure to religion.

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yippee, a waiting list tens of kilometres away which in Dublin traffic means one parent giving up their job.

    But yeah, "choices" 🙄

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Still a choice.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Mother of God. What a pointless debate. Religion is a minor issue in all schools today. Religion a JC and LC subject. World religions studied etc

    Without a home base or societal base your kid is hardly going to become evangelical.

    But we have the virtue signaling secularists raised on the poor history of the church in Ireland rushing to the battlements. But the battle is over.

    Naked consumerism and me me meism is the current religion and its packing them in

    But far be it from me to stop the joy of the show boaters here!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    You're replacing a constitutional right to education with the illusion of a choice.


    Would you tell someone they could go away and choose another hospital if they didn't want the prayer before surgery?... Oh but they should have chosen to live near another hospital before they became sick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You might suddenly get sick.

    You don't suddenly end up a kid of school leaving age and suddenly realise you can't facilitate your life choices, in your current location.

    So its a disingenuous comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If we go back to the OP question. How can the faith school facilitate someone who wants to attend the faith school, but have zero contact with religion in that school, while not being treated differently from all the other kids.

    That's has to be a catch 22. You can't be treated the same and differently, both at the same time. So how practically is that to be achieved. What is acceptable. Perhaps if posted what worked for them this would a more productive thread.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Without a home base or societal base your kid is hardly going to become evangelical.

    So what exactly is the point of religious education/instruction?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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