Foundation (Apple) [ SPOILERS ]

Doodah7 · 08-10-2021 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991132#Comment_117991132

Why are you asking in this thread? It seems to be almost exclusively related to how it compares to the books rather than how it works as a TV series…

mewso · 08-10-2021 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993204#Comment_117993204

Quite right. Except for the posts by people who haven't read the books. I have a crazy theory. Those who haven't read it will evaluate it as a TV show and those who have will compare it to the books. Scans thread. Yep several posts from people praising the show and saying nothing about the books. Mad I know. Confirmation bias comes to mind. I'll refrain from discussing the new episode to spare you my comparisons to the book. As to JP Liz's question. The general consensus in the thread is positive I think. I have misgivings in terms of an adaptation but it is certainly engaging and well made with some good original ideas not from the books. If you like your Sci-Fi you can't really go wrong. It is moving a bit slowly as has been said but that can be a good or bad thing.

fritzelly · 08-10-2021 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991132#Comment_117991132

Definitely, but a tad hard to follow

Slydice · 08-10-2021 9:16pm

4: Well that was fun! I was like a Wild Baron Vladimir Harkonnen appears! 😁

Never did have much luck with emporers did that guy! 😁

Looks like they needed a connecting story to help join some dots to the audience.

Feels like maybe Brother Day is gonna go start some fight and come out worse for wear from it.

The reappearance of Gaal so late into the episode felt nice and Aliens-ey

Not sure the Anacreon plan. This show hasn't established enough of a tech footprint for this cannon to mean much so I'd be guessing the leader of the city is gonna walk that head huntress out with that engine part she wants but it'll have been a trick just to get the shields down or something.

corkie · 08-10-2021 10:01pm

How did Salvor Hardin know that it was Seldon's library (on Trantor). She would never have been there?

FE 18 -- Salvor Hardin born on Terminus.

Foundation Episode 4 Ending Explained: Who Finds [SPOILER]?

@mewso Think people are waiting to see where the show is going to make judgements on it?

As a person who has read the books, I'm enjoying the show and interested in how they develop(/fill in) missing content of the source material.

But they should have promoted this show as based on, instead of an adaptation.

Inspired by the short stories and novels of Isaac Asimov

@JP Liz V1 I'm kind of envious of you, that if you choose, you can watch(& maybe enjoy) the show without knowing the source content.

But if you want to see the source, I have linked the 'Foundation Trilogy' in previous post that can be read online (archive.org) or audio drama. (But that is only the bare minimum of the source as content is been pulled from across asimov's works).

mewso · 09-10-2021 11:48am

I agree corkie. Like I said I have misgivings but it's too early to see where they are going even in terms of the adaptation to come down too hard on it either way. My major test is how these crises are dealt with. If it's a cgi battle with explosions then good riddands.

iguana · 10-10-2021 11:39am

I haven't read the books but don't think it's especially hard to follow. I do think that we are being told certain things rather than shown then, like the uprisings on Trantor, the scale of the devastation on Anacrean and Thespin, the beginnings of the loss of control of the outer planets, how/why there is a religious schism on religion planet, etc which are things I'd rather see some of. Not necessarily all of it but these are the cornerstones of the decline of the Empire, so ideally actually seeing how and why at least some of it is occurring would be better than just exposition about it. However, shooting on Foundation had shut down during Covid and then restarted having to follow strict social distancing protocols. Having hundreds of extras having an uprising, listening to a religious leader preaching dissent, scrambling about on a devastated planet, just wouldn't have been possible. This was mainly a Covid production, so I feel that allowances need to be made for that.

I am also curious about why it was only announced to be renewed a few days ago. I started watching this knowing it was renewed, so I suspect that may have changed how I was feeling watching it. It has been a lot easier for me to watch this, giving it time to world build and unfold when I know this is the first season not the only season. S2 was very obviously greenlit and funded months ago given that pre-production has been underway for quite a while with numerous members of the crew back in Limerick for the last few weeks. I think it was a mistake to wait until the show was 3-4 episodes in before announcing it was definitely coming back.

Slydice · 15-10-2021 7:52pm

5: I was like.. hold on.. ye wha..

It felt like the Anacreon plan was to take the empire ship that arrived.. well by the ka-boom.. I don't think there's much of that ship left! I dunno.. maybe they are gonna scavenge parts from the foundation slow ship and the crashed empire ship to just make some other ship that can get by empire defences.

It might be obvious already but given the rest of the story..

I'm guessing Hari is still alive.. Raysh was talking to Gaal through the recording.. They are heading to Haris homeworld as he's probably already there from that special pod he had designed for himself.

Decent backstory this episode for

Gaal

This episode, I really liked the special effects of the

rings around her planet

all the look and feel of this ship she has woken up on

Props to the Set Design Crew and/or the Special effects crew!

mewso · 15-10-2021 9:42pm

Well they went where I hoped they wouldn't and I'm afraid any connection to Asimov and his story is in name only at this point. We just had to have action, explosions, death and destruction as I feared. Some might say well modern audiences yada yada but you know, make something else then. I must be on my own not really enjoying the first 20 minutes of each episode being wasted on here is something that happened in the past that you had probably already guessed about or you didn't really need to know. Anyway very disappointed but if you are enjoying it then great. People mentioned earlier some other books it would be great to see adapted. Not so sure I would like to see that happen anymore. I suppose it can go either way. The Expanse being a positive example.

corkie · 15-10-2021 10:13pm

@mewso

Yea! Didn't really need to know 'Gaal Dornicks' back story, unless they put her back in cryo, she can't be around for future seasons.

And what is happening in Terminus is nothing to do with the books.

I found a source to read the other four books in the series. And my 30 year old memory of key points (/events) was quite good.

The books where kind of repetitive and formulaic, but enjoyed the journey of re reading them. May have look at the robot series next.

^^^ Read them in Published order.

bnt · 16-10-2021 3:26pm

“How did Salvor Hardin know that it was Seldon's library (on Trantor). She would never have been there?”

She would have been surrounded by Foundation lore her whole life; at this point (end of Ep. 5) they’ve been on Terminus for about 30 years, so she grew up there. In school she would have learned all about Hari Seldon and his history, with pictures or video of Streeling University etc. It would be like someone from Galway learning about Pádraig Pearse and recognizing the GPO even if they’ve never been to Dublin.

I think I’m adjusting to the slow pace of the show. I wasn’t expecting it to be all Asimov, but Ep. 5 had little or no Asimov. Gun battles and fist fights (with shaky camera work), when we know what Asimov thought about violence and how it was irrelevant in the big picture? I get how the show needs to be character-driven and show the human side, but we still need the big ideas behind it all.

Talisman · 16-10-2021 3:48pm

I have yet to take the time to sit down and watch episodes 4 and 5. I think I'll leave it for another week or two so that I can binge a few episodes at once. The business of tv shows adding a hook in the final few minutes to create drama for the next episode annoys the sh!t out of me, there should be no need for it if the material is strong enough to hold the audience's interest.

Nody · 17-10-2021 12:54pm

I've played catch up and watched first five episode over the last three days and I'm honestly done. The foundation should be a drama driven story about humanity and handling of events and the tension between individuals; instead we get an poorly executed action series to the backdrop of the one line version of the foundation trilogy. The story don't grip me; the action is invasion of the tomato level poor and I simply don't care. The trilogy has plenty of ways to drum up drama and plot twists which is the point; drama not action sequences is what the series should have been about. There's a lovely story arc that could have been told about how the current events in the book (only connection basically being the planets involved) through tense drama with cliffhangers without of adding pew pew pew to "make it tense".

corkie · 19-10-2021 7:53pm

<YouTube> Foundation Season 2 Announcement | Showrunner Answers Fan Questions

David Goyer AMA Foundation Season 1 & 2 : - https://www.reddit.com/r/FoundationTV/comments/q8r4b0/david_s_goyer_foundation_showrunner_ama/

David Goyer Foundation AMA - Post Discussion Thread : - https://www.reddit.com/r/FoundationTV/comments/q8tpvt/david_goyer_foundation_ama_post_discussion_thread/

Looks like they only have rights to the 'Foundation' series and not Empire or Robots.

No 'Mary Sue' characters, even though early episodes give that impression.

Amalgamation of some characters from the books. <<< i.e. Gaal Dormick

is_that_so · 20-10-2021 8:03am

I see some negative comments about the show here. Only watched the first one myself and quite underwhelmed by it. Don't know the source material at all but does it get any better?

20-10-2021 8:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993432#Comment_117993432

People discussing TV show, on it's merit, in the Television Forum... Shokka

corkie · 23-10-2021 1:43pm

No post yet about episode 6? Have people lost interest in the show already?

Thought this episode was enjoyable, but still waiting on how they resolve things, to make a judgement on it overall.

[ScreenRant] Foundation Episode 6: The First Seldon Crisis Explained

The first Seldon Crisis is becoming a reality in Foundation episode 6, as the Galactic Empire veers closer to the brink of its inevitable collapse.

Slydice · 23-10-2021 2:59pm

This episode boosted signifcantly by me watching the first three episodes of the dull-in-comparison Invasion series last night.

6: Things moving along, action and the epic story and the big story developing.

I thought the scene where the Warden loses her Dad was acted really well by Leah Harvey. She did really well in the switch from solid determination to crippling loss.

Ok, for the big story, then it looks like there's gonna be some cool Destroyer level spaceship coming up.. sounds like they're gonna have a go at Trantor. Huge Battle in Space possibility rising!!

For the epic story, looks like this is the Religon event that Sheldon warned about.

Brother Dawn.... hrmmm .. hmm hmm hmm

Colour Blind. In Love. .. Maybe about to lose Brother Day and get trust into a Brother Day role early if the current one is killed. Plus the a maybe loss of their Android..

These could be the setup of structural weaknesses to spur events along.

Slydice · 23-10-2021 3:05pm

Oh! and

the Vault at the end. I don't remember seeing it lit up before.

Like maybe it's a Sheldon thing or maybe time travel thing and this is the moment it's been setup to wait for to take action

VinLieger · 23-10-2021 11:18pm

Sad to see they don't have the rights to link this back to robots or empire as would ultimately be needed imo for properly developing demerzel motivations and backstory.

Seems like they are combining the first 2 crisis from the books via the spaceship and I'm guessing some what will be some kind of standoff between the other outer rim kingdoms that we haven't yet seen.

But then they are also kind of dividing the second crisis from the books as the religion aspect there was very much focused on the foundation having set themselves up as a church of science for those kingdoms and thus made themselves indespensible to then succeed in the second crisis. I'm interested to see where this empire religion story goes far more than the current terminus storyline.

corkie · 29-10-2021 4:41pm

https://www.avclub.com/foundation-explores-old-mysteries-and-new-discoveries-1847959949

Also, apparently bra clasps have not changed in 12,000 years?

😃 ?

Slydice · 29-10-2021 9:46pm

7: Well I want to know more! Oh yeah do I want to know more!

about Gaal and this future business! This .. I am looking forward to!

Yeah yeah.. big warship.. big splosions.. psssshh.. Gimme that future sense!

So I don't think

Both the Warship plan and the Religion plan are gonna pan out.

Feels like the Warship plan would damage Foundation so I'm guessing it's the Religion plan that's gonna start the decline of Empire.. combined with Brother Dawn and his differences.

and I still REALLY like the feel of the scifi in this show.. the Special Effect/Practical Effects/Directors/Editors/Cinematographers/whoever is making it happen are doing some good work!

cdgalwegian · 30-10-2021 12:58pm

When I heard this was being made into a series, I started on the first book, but it came as across as too much like fantasy for me (which I don’t like in books), so soon gave up- but I quite liked the main conceit in it. Been looking forward to seeing how it would be put together as a tv series (without having watched the trailers).

Watched the first 3 episodes; quite liking it. It does jump around a bit, and seems a bit 'gappy' but I suppose there’s a huge amount of story to fit in efficiently for a first series. Visually great, with good acting and direction. For a truly galactic story, it’s all been very small-scale and low-key, I suppose in order to get a grip on the main characters, and the burgeoning threats, so I expect that to open up. There is the potential then of this becoming properly epic, and hopefully then not too unwieldy.

Shred · 30-10-2021 6:47pm

I haven't read the books and while I enjoyed the first few episodes of this and will definitely see it out, the pacing of it, combined with that TV series trope of following a particular storyline/character one week, ending on a cliffhanger and then skipping them the next...makes it a bit annoying tbh. Plus the action sequences (particularly in episode 6) are poorly done I thought, all very '90s TV production'. Overall it's intriguing on some levels while at the same time frustrating on others, but I'll reserve overall judgement until the season finishes.

Talisman · 05-11-2021 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062237#Comment_118062237

I haven't found the time to get back to it. I think I have watched the first four episodes so as of today I'm four episodes behind. I sat down last weekend with the intention of watching a couple of episodes but as the intro started I was asked if we could watch Dune instead so HBO Max won.

My son has lost interest in the series, he likes the story but it's the format in which it is presented that he doesn't like. He says he'll binge watch it over the Christmas period just to see it through.

corkie · 05-11-2021 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118026361#Comment_118026361

And as of the end of episode 8, 'Gaal' back in cryo for another 138 years, if she is not picked up on her way to Synnax

So kind of predicted the above.

Foundation's Psychohistory Science Isn't Making Any Sense

https://thecinemaholic.com/foundation-episode-8-recap-and-ending-explained/

Also 'Eto Demerzel' can not be governed by the three laws. (Unless the "Zeroth Law" comes into play.

Talisman · 05-11-2021 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122498#Comment_118122498

Also 'Eto Demerzel' can not be governed by the three laws. (Unless the "Zeroth Law" comes into play.

I thought that was hinted at in the third episode. I haven't seen much more of the series so I don't know if they made other alterations to the character that would suggest otherwise.

mewso · 06-11-2021 12:30am

Perfect example of the writer's mistrust of the viewer at the end of the latest episode:-

It was obvious Day had no vision but knew what to pretend he had seen to win favour but just to be sure they not only show him not having a vision they also repeat Demerzel's words just in case.

I'm actually genuinely addicted to how bad this can get now. The performances are pretty bad all round bar Lee Pace who is excellent. In fact the Empire stuff has been the most interesting part of the show so far. A few others are decent but the two mains - Hardin and Gaal are pretty terrible although it could be the writing. Hardin in particular has switched form being competent with perfect instincts to foolish and impetuous depending on what the script requires. I'll try not to post anymore as I know it annoys people to see negativity too often and it does seem like if you haven't read the books you get more out of it.

Slydice · 06-11-2021 2:47pm

8: Lookit.. that was just pretty damn good episode of Science Fiction! Story, tech, production, sets, acting, directing all just pulling together really well into a combined effort.

Right, I

couldn't believe he sent Demerzel to kill Halima! Ruthless! 😲

showing the other side of the Anacreon was done really well.. real Terminator 2 intro/Sarah Connor judgement day vision vibes..

I'm not sure what's gonna happen with the warship.. did we find out if The Warden is related to Gaal? I mean I'm pretty sure we saw her mother on Terminus.. but like.. this luck business.. seems very Gaal like.. could she be adopted.. nah.. no way.

Gaal set a course that'll take 138 years.. either something happens on the way or I'm seeing a time jump coming up soon in the show.

Then all this business with Exo possibly meaning external-to-the-galaxy threat and the Vault on Terminus .. maybe there are Aliens

All in all.. a lot done, a lot more potential and a very exciting show so far!

Great performance out of Jared Harris! What a boon for this show that he joined up!

Slydice · 06-11-2021 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127445#Comment_118127445

Oh! and of course the one big thing I'm also guessing:

That second "hidden" Foundation that Seldon is planning.. I'm guessing then that maybe this whole ship he.. (well.. his representation anyway).. that the ship might be a cryo ship bringing the the to-be-grown population of the second Foundation to their planet.

Foundation (Apple) [** SPOILERS **]

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Foundation (Apple) [ SPOILERS ]