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  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It is what I'm doing and looking at all the ways I can increase income and cut costs.

    Ultimately I will be voting out FG and don't expect any party will fix housing in time for me to benefit but seeing how FG have really let down the working class means it will be a very long time before I consider giving them a vote.

    I'll never be a supporter of SF but a message has to be sent to FG that they have to look after younger people who are following all the rules of the game and struggling to get a home and have a couple of kids.

    If that message has to be sent by voting for the main opposition party then that is what will have to be done.

    There is no excuse for the shocking lack of affordable housing being built within a reasonable commuting distance of Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,356 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Sinn Féin should get in next time. My bet is they'll saddle up with FF which would be funny considering how much they moan about each other



  • Administrators Posts: 53,648 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It would be a coalition devoid of any credibility.

    FF would be crazy to go in as junior party in a SF led government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,241 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Because they will have no natural constituency after they make that move. SF would regard any deal with FF as "a temporary little arrangement" and would be unlikely to be encouraging their followers to transfer to them at subsequent elections. And on the other front anti-SF 'Middle Ireland' would desert them en masse for FG. Basically politics would be polarised between FG and the SF-led Left and FF would be stranded in no man's land in between.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,356 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Numbers will dictate. SF will probably need either FF or FG.

    However, FG need time as an opposition party. They've been in power too long, and need to break away from FF to grow again imo.



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  • Administrators Posts: 53,648 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    FG would absolutely want to go into opposition, FF are in a tougher spot but being junior partner under FF is going to be terrible for them in the long term.

    FF would need to hold some of the major ministries in any such government if they want to stay relevant, and that means they'll carry the can when SF fail to deliver on all of their promises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,241 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    FG's whole raison d'etre going forward will be as the anti-SF party. Doing a deal with SF for the sake of a few years in power would be a suicidal trashing of their brand. And the thing is it would never happen anyway as SF will always choose FF over FG as a partner. So it's absolutely in FG's interest to categorically rule out a deal with SF ahead of every election and stick to their word afterward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Look we can all rattle on until the cows come home and speculate. But a third force in irish politics has to be given a chance, to force change. Because FFG are and have been an absolute failure. Infrastructure is a disgrace, housing a disgrace, HSE a disgrace, law and order here a farce, every area is an absolute joke!



  • Administrators Posts: 53,648 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Yes but someone has to be the sacrificial lamb. If FF go in with SF it will 100% be them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    it will be very interesting to see how the numbers pan out, you would wonder if SF, the greens and say a SD, Labour rainbow coalition could be formed. Clean cut would be Sf and FF coalition. I can see FG taking a term out, they can sit on the opposition benches, telling the new crowd how to do, what they havent done in over a decade in office...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    As an aside, a few of my mates and brother have managed to buy their homes after years of struggling to save and bailouts from parents and relatives. Many will be voting SF, you dont forgot the disgrace it is, or lose compassion for others quickly! Or forgot the high prices and europes highest mortgage rates, when you will be paying them for 30 years!

    Its like the OP says in the OP, all I also care about is relatively affordable homes. You would swear all of us care about forever homes for the pyjama brigade, because the politicians must see RTE and the left wing media talk relentlessly about the homeless and 4eva home brigade. They are away with the fairies!



  • Administrators Posts: 53,648 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Based on the poll numbers that we saw earlier in the month SF/GP/LB/SD wouldn't get over the line and would still result in a minority.

    I believe, if an election were held tomorrow, SF would have no route to government that did not include FF propping them up. Trying to do it without FF would mean they'd need the GP, SD, LB, PBP and some INDs. It would never work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Yeah.... I dont think the public will really tolerate another FFG coalition if SF win the largest number of seats of any party... the people will have well and truly spoken. I can see housing getting much worse and the current coalition losing more seats. I mean lets be honest, housing, health, congestion are all going to get worse. Petrol and diesel prices are mental and will continue increasing, there isnt the money there for giveaway budgets...

    They created this entire mess from decades of short term populism, they have themselves to blame entirely! not SF or any other bogey man. As for any of their SF being terrorists BS. Listen, people are terrorised for years with rip off housing, couch surfing etc. They would want to start coming up with better than that old chestnut. As for talking about SF and magic money trees etc, the irony is hilarious.

    I would ideally love to have another credible option to SF, one that rewarded workers more etc. But I dont see that coming before the next election. Infact I reckon the only way that happens here, is if there is a split within FG etc. They can do some soul searching on why they have lost huge support. Maybe then someone will have the spine, to do what won them so much support years ago. Actually do look after those that work hard. They have an obsession here, with looking after those that have never worked!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Irish inflation breaches 5% for first time since the year 2000! Just came across this on breaking news on the indo website...

    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-inflation-roars-back-to-celtic-tiger-levels-40996136.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    I would start index linking the OAP to the cost of living , along with the income tax rates, every budget and stop the whole farce around it every year. Start looking at a welfare system, based on what you paid in (I believe they are looking at this) Abolish LPT, as partial offset for the scandalous rate of marginal tax, that will be very hard to change. New petrol and diesels charged at way higher level of motor tax than current levels. All social housing rents , withdrawn at source if needs be. Massive increase in prison spaces, to deal with the large amount of degenrates roaming our streets. Proper transport police. Proper infrastructure that they have talked about for decades in dublin and elsewhere, but havent done anything about. Like I said, if they had done a fraction of what they have talked about for decades, we wouldnt be in this position. People are out of patience...

    They are changes I would make and are doable even in this country, where no party wants to touch anything with a bargepole, out of cowardice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    You hear this narrative a lot, but oddly enough Ireland is a pretty wealthy country, people who want jobs can get jobs, we have extremely generous social welfare (better than maybe 95% of the world), and it's a very good place to live in terms of quality of life.

    Everyone knows things could be better. This is true in every country on the planet. There are obvious gaps and issues right now, but the idea that this is some sort of disastrous hellhole is so far from reality it's not even funny.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    This attitude has us where we are! Is it a hell hole? no. Is the level of governance near acceptable? no! Its like saying, things in germany arent perfect either, so that makes it ok... Its a ridiculous way of looking at it. I think the fairest way is, after decades, looking at the bigger picture. Even with very low expectations, I dont think what has and does go on here, is even close to acceptable...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I think we all have figured out the online campaign by Sinn Fein at this stage. FG have said no chance they will go into government with Sinn Fein so they are the target. Across all media forms it is the same as this and it all starts with "I used to vote for FG but etc etc etc"

    In reality the percent of voters for FG wasn't great for years till FF f**ked it all up and they got in for one election and then dropped back again, but if we are to take the number of people on social media who claimed they voted for FG they should of had a way bigger hold on Ireland.

    The great white hope is that FF will jump on the SF bandwagon, hence why you have the lack of "I used to vote for FF but etc etc etc" in these threads. Which should be more common due to the high percentage of the population who voted for FF.

    It doesn't matter what way you look at this, SF are anti worker. They will destroy a huge percentage of jobs in Ireland and it will be a disaster, want an example just look at the rich tax which was 140k and a year later it's 100k. What will it end up at to pay for the crazy plans SF have?

    Also in terms of actually fixing anything like health, well just take the most recent interview when they talk about prefab hospital and Cullinane couldn't even explain how SF would manage to hire loads of consultants, as they are promising, while at the same time telling them they have to pay more & more tax. The guy couldn't even tell the presenter how much a consultant is on(this is all available to everyone on the hSE website along with all HSE pay grades).

    People complain about everything now, saying it should be this/that and the other. Then of course we are told Sinn Fein are new and shiny and they are not corrupt. But look at the North, 1998 the GFA was signed and they have driven the place backwards at every opportunity. Including shutting down the government for 3 years over wood chips and Irish Language act which 0.01% of the people in Northern Ireland speak.

    Then we are also told we should ignore DCC which Sinn Fein took over in 2014, they even had article on SF website about how they would run it and build houses etc. Between 2014 and 2019 they made a complete disaster, built nothing and ended up with a 33m debt(up from circa 20M) owed to DCC for non payment, they did manage 1 eviction for the 33 odd million.

    That's the Sinn Fein that everyone is saying is the answer. God help us all if that shower do get voted in



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    jesus, this absolute horseh1t! the bulk of irelands wealth is stored in 'assets', such as property and land, similar to other similar countries, so if you dont own assets, you re probably sh1t out of luck! the problem isnt with welfare classes, as they generally dont own many assets, if any at all, but theyre a very convenient scape goat though! our welfare is so generous, as soon as pup was introduced, it was almost immediately doubled! yes there are many countries far worse to live in, but theres actually no need to constrain such people, increasing pup has proven extremely beneficial to all in society, as it improved citizens lives considerably, and provided the economy with critically needed liquidity, i.e. money, which was spent into the economy, kept many businesses open, and employed more people! this is ultimately where our primary government parties keep failing, i.e. not all citizens own assets, less are able to gain access to purchasing these assets, and most are requiring even more of their income over time, to keep a roof over their heads, this approach to running our economy and society is now failing, possible collapsing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,356 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Only a very naive person would think SF can deliver all their promises tbf. No party delivers their promises.

    They'll find out soon enough that we need to pay for things, and this wealth tax is pie in the sky stuff. No doubts banning the property tax will be another pipe dream. Their financial rep is an absolute spoofer.

    I'd love a Utd Ireland to be achieved. That's sinn féins aim. When it comes to financials they are all over the place.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we all need to urgently ditch this idea that books need to be balanced, they dont, period! by doing so, we become largely reliant on the private sector money supply, i.e. the credit supply, this has become too unstable and simply too dangerous, as it tends to lead to credit fueled asset bubbles, and subsequent busts, i.e. 08. our governments going forward need to embrace this thinking, our we re probably screwed, if sf do this, their finances should be far more stable than whats been before, but they have to embrace it first, then explain to the public how it works, theyre failing to do this at the moment



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,016 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    With the proviso that it's extremely difficult to project seats from polls in Ireland (due to our lack of quality regional polls and the complexity of predicting lower order seats in our multi-seat constituencies) a projection I saw after the latest round of polls had:


    • SF - 60
    • FG - 43
    • FF - 31
    • SD - 5
    • LAB - 4
    • PBP/SOL - 4
    • GP - 3
    • AON - 1
    • IND - 9


    So yes, I think your assessment is accurate, in that SF cannot get into government without FF, but if FF rule that out what else is even realistically possible?

    Are you advocating for an Israeli situation where we just end up having a series of elections in a year because everybody despises everyone else?



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    I think you have no sense of perspective. You need to travel more, I suggest. It was not inevitable that Ireland would today be one of the places in the world with the highest quality of life. You're happy to heap bile on FF and FG (and presumably the other parties of government since the foundation of the state) and you correctly point out the shortcomings we see today. But you don't want to acknowledge all the things that they got right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,837 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    All this above .... plus putting Sinn Féin anywhere near the levers of power in the Republic whilst they are also supposed to be governing up North, would be playing with absolute fire.

    When push comes to shove next election the SF fan boys and girls will evaporate in the face of reality.

    We are set to live with various coalitions here excluding SF. Until they sort themselves out up North and then the public might consider it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    I've no idea what you are trying to say. Something something Ireland is worse than Somalia.

    Who is talking absolute horsesh!t? You have the privilege to live in one of the happiest, healthiest and richest countries in the world. Unfortunately, we are also plagued by ignorant people with no appreciation or understanding of how lucky they are.

    Is this an argument for the position that things cannot get better? No. Is it an argument that we should not try to make things better? No. Is it an argument for some sort of perspective on exactly how well we are and have been governed? Yes, it is.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,648 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and you d wonder why many have had enough of our major parties! ive been to the developing world, yes we are indeed privileged, but its perspective time now! we have an ever growing amount of well educated, middle class people, actually unable to meet their most critical of needs, most obvious in their property needs, modern, primarily western politics and economics, has failed, its time for us to become big grown ups, and accept these failures



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    "modern, primarily western politics and economics, has failed, its time for us to become big grown ups, and accept these failures"

    Cool - so which mode of economics/government do you suggest we adopt? Feudalism? Hunter-gathering?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    its interesting you used the term feudalism, as some respected commentators actually use this term to describe whats currently occurring, its clearly obvious wealth is accumulating, and fast, due to these ideologies, and if you think those who are on the receiving end of this are happy about this, watch out, cause theyre on the way! we re clearly entering an era of significant destabilisation, in particular politically, so be ready for it.

    ...and to answer your question, i believe we urgently need to create a new form of capitalism, and fast, or we could just decide to go full retard.... only our primary government parties are continually defaulting to their preferred form of capatalism, and its clearly obvious, it wont work, its just going to keep failing!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    So Ireland creates a new form of capitalism, on its own? What is this form of capitalism, and how does it work?

    Or is this just going to be some hand-waving/sci fi proposal indistinguishable from magic?



This discussion has been closed.
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